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> Nonetheless, this is pretty damning for the horse paste set. Look I agree that vaccines confer a reduction in risk, but you really shouldn't be referring to

> Nonetheless, this is pretty damning for the horse paste set. Look I agree that vaccines confer a reduction in risk, but you really shouldn't be referring to ivermectin as “horse paste”. That is clearly pejorative misinformation, and is equivalent to calling all antibiotics “cow pills” just because there happen to be antibiotics administered to livestock.

ajross 5y ago
No, sorry. People were literally taking horse paste formulations of a drug that did not work. That's not perjorative, it's descriptive. It sounds perjorative simply because it's outrageously stupid. But it's correct. Being embarrassed when someone calls you an idiot isn't being persecuted if you're actually being an idiot. If you don't want me to laugh at you for taking horse paste then don't take it.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  A couple comments: first, you know full well that your comment is aimed at everyone who considered use of ivermectin, not just “horse paste formulations” - rebranding ivermectin that way was part of the misinformation pushed by CNN and a significant portion of the political left as the COVID culture wars heated up, and it remains wrong still. Ivermectin is correctly described as a Nobel prize winning drug, not “horse paste”. Second, a big reason some people resorted to those particular formulations is because politically biased pharmacy workers were refusing to fill prescriptions people legitimately got from their doctor, which again was a result of the COVID culture war pushed by people calling ivermectin “horse paste”. Third, tone down your aggression. Not only is it inappropriate for this place, but it just weakens your argument further.
  - 8note 5y ago
    It's properly described as a Nobel winning treatment for parasites like worms. Saying drug is a bit vague, and you lose the same plot as calling it horse paste. It's not some cure all, appointed by the nobels as good for all your ailments
    - throwawaysea 5y ago
      Agree it isn’t some cure all. However at the same time, I think it is valid for people to speculate and experiment and see if it can work. Dismissing it entirely removes room for experimentation and I don’t think it is the place of media or pharmacists to trivialize it at the start. Just as people were looking at it as a panacea with certainty, I think people on the other side of the debate became almost religious with their single track vaccine worship, particularly when it came to them mandating it. Somewhere in the middle is balance and civil discourse.
      - ajross 5y ago
        > I think it is valid for people to speculate and experiment and see if it can work. This wasn't a scientific study! People were eating horse paste. There were literally multiple overdose events reported. You think it's... "valid" to go to your local farm supply store and chug down random drugs because someone on Facebook told you to?
  - ajross 5y ago
    Ivermectin. Does. Not. Work. To. Treat. Or. Prevent. Covid. Vaccines do. Those who refuse to treat with that reality are exactly the "horse paste set" I was referring to. And again, it will be decades before this mania you people have engaged in is understood.
    - throwawaysea 5y ago
      I didn’t disagree with your first sentence. But calling it “horse paste” remains wrong. Referring to this as “mania” or referring to me as “you people” just makes you look unhinged and antagonistic, which is exactly what the actual mania in response to ivermectin was like.
      - ajross 5y ago
        Are you saying that the drug is not available in a veterinary paste formulation? Because it is. Are you saying people[1] were not finding and taking the veterinary form of this drug? No, because they were. So... horse paste. People were taking horse paste for covid. And that's "right", not "wrong". It's just a fact. I submit that what you're really upset about isn't the truth of this matter but my refusal to engage in your face-saving spin. But I won't. Because people were taking horse paste for covid. And that's insane. And it's equally insane to defend them for it. [1] Unable to get doctors to prescribe or pharmacies to supply a drug that everyone rational can see has no business being prescribed for a viral infection, especially one with a working vaccine.
    - dang 5y ago
      Perpetuating flamewar will get you banned here. Internet snark tropes make it worse. No more of this, please—no matter how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
longbrass 5y ago
The pejorative appears to be directed at the “set” of individuals who advise, or use, the drug in its equine formulation as opposed to the drug itself. This off label use has been documented https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-veterinary-use-ivermectin-attempts-prevent-cure-covid-19 https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-... and it’s the individuals that deserve derision as opposed to the inanimate pharma compounds.

ajross 5y ago

No, sorry. People were literally taking horse paste formulations of a drug that did not work. That's not perjorative, it's descriptive. It sounds perjorative simply because it's outrageously stupid. But it's correct. Being embarrassed when someone calls you an idiot isn't being persecuted if you're actually being an idiot. If you don't want me to laugh at you for taking horse paste then don't take it.

throwawaysea 5y ago
A couple comments: first, you know full well that your comment is aimed at everyone who considered use of ivermectin, not just “horse paste formulations” - rebranding ivermectin that way was part of the misinformation pushed by CNN and a significant portion of the political left as the COVID culture wars heated up, and it remains wrong still. Ivermectin is correctly described as a Nobel prize winning drug, not “horse paste”. Second, a big reason some people resorted to those particular formulations is because politically biased pharmacy workers were refusing to fill prescriptions people legitimately got from their doctor, which again was a result of the COVID culture war pushed by people calling ivermectin “horse paste”. Third, tone down your aggression. Not only is it inappropriate for this place, but it just weakens your argument further.
- 8note 5y ago
  It's properly described as a Nobel winning treatment for parasites like worms. Saying drug is a bit vague, and you lose the same plot as calling it horse paste. It's not some cure all, appointed by the nobels as good for all your ailments
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    Agree it isn’t some cure all. However at the same time, I think it is valid for people to speculate and experiment and see if it can work. Dismissing it entirely removes room for experimentation and I don’t think it is the place of media or pharmacists to trivialize it at the start. Just as people were looking at it as a panacea with certainty, I think people on the other side of the debate became almost religious with their single track vaccine worship, particularly when it came to them mandating it. Somewhere in the middle is balance and civil discourse.
    - ajross 5y ago
      > I think it is valid for people to speculate and experiment and see if it can work. This wasn't a scientific study! People were eating horse paste. There were literally multiple overdose events reported. You think it's... "valid" to go to your local farm supply store and chug down random drugs because someone on Facebook told you to?
- ajross 5y ago
  Ivermectin. Does. Not. Work. To. Treat. Or. Prevent. Covid. Vaccines do. Those who refuse to treat with that reality are exactly the "horse paste set" I was referring to. And again, it will be decades before this mania you people have engaged in is understood.
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    I didn’t disagree with your first sentence. But calling it “horse paste” remains wrong. Referring to this as “mania” or referring to me as “you people” just makes you look unhinged and antagonistic, which is exactly what the actual mania in response to ivermectin was like.
    - ajross 5y ago
      Are you saying that the drug is not available in a veterinary paste formulation? Because it is. Are you saying people[1] were not finding and taking the veterinary form of this drug? No, because they were. So... horse paste. People were taking horse paste for covid. And that's "right", not "wrong". It's just a fact. I submit that what you're really upset about isn't the truth of this matter but my refusal to engage in your face-saving spin. But I won't. Because people were taking horse paste for covid. And that's insane. And it's equally insane to defend them for it. [1] Unable to get doctors to prescribe or pharmacies to supply a drug that everyone rational can see has no business being prescribed for a viral infection, especially one with a working vaccine.
  - dang 5y ago
    Perpetuating flamewar will get you banned here. Internet snark tropes make it worse. No more of this, please—no matter how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

longbrass 5y ago

The pejorative appears to be directed at the “set” of individuals who advise, or use, the drug in its equine formulation as opposed to the drug itself. This off label use has been documented https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-veterinary-use-ivermectin-attempts-prevent-cure-covid-19 https://www.avma.org/javma-news/2021-10-01/people-ingesting-... and it’s the individuals that deserve derision as opposed to the inanimate pharma compounds.