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This is really interesting. I remember that the GTA 5 build log file was leaked back in the day. It contained a lot of interesting information too (e.g., someth

This is really interesting. I remember that the GTA 5 build log file was leaked back in the day. It contained a lot of interesting information too (e.g., something along the lines of an "auto play bot" which failed at a certain mission). I'm looking forward to some summary of this soon in a blog/Youtube video :-). That being said, it's a shame T2/R* is taking down/suing mods for this type of bad port. Despite being way ahead of any other game company in terms of R&D and innovation, they sadly decided to outsource these "definitive"versions and pay little attention to QA. In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 (probably even with a CRT TV) as that is the way the original developers really built it for.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 This is why I'm still a PC user. Whenever nostalgia hits and I want to play some old games, I don't need to keep around or source some vintage console hardware and games on the 2nd hand market or rely on some low quality ports that were most likely outsourced with poor QA, but I can just get away with installing the original game build off Steam/GOG or from two decades old cracked .iso files, and it will most likely work as Microsoft has done an amazing job with Windows backwards compatibility. And even when it doesn't work out of the box, there are enough resources out there from the community, with tweaks and patches, on how to get it running on a modern OS like Win 10 or even on Linux.
- tata71 5y ago
  ...how does that help you follow the damn train, CJ?
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    You left Big Smoke behind, go get him!
- astrange 5y ago
  PS2 emulation works pretty well these days.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Sure, but why would you emulate something that already has a native build for PC?
    - beebmam 5y ago
      Many games for older versions of Windows will not on modern versions of Windows without emulators, like DOSbox
    - aufhebung 5y ago
      I think the PC build lacks some visual effects that are present on the PS2 version.
    - skhr0680 5y ago
      You need 5+ mods to the PC version of San Andreas before it looks and feels “right”. Look up SkyGFX for an example
    - asddubs 5y ago
      because the playstation 2 API is even more stable than the windows API, and it's neatly sandboxed
    - sergiotapia 5y ago
      pc versions of gta have had iconic music removed in updates and as of a few days ago you can't even purchase them anymore. emulate and enjoy the games at 4k upscaled running at 60fps with everything the original had. it's the best way to enjoy these older titles. even shadow of the colossus for ps2 upscaled is better than the ps4 remaster - the "tone" has changed in the remaster. check out some youtube videos.
    - nextaccountic 5y ago
      Emulation often has an easier setup: no need to install, for instance. If on Windows, no trouble with incompatibilities with old versions of Windows; if on Linux, no trouble with Wine setup and winetricks. Also, no worries with malware. Emulators also comes with "save states" (RAM dumps that save/restore at any point of time) and other features. It's really more convenient.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Well, assuming the PC version isn't a half-hearted console port...
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    Is there a mature discussion on the history of 'consolization' anywhere online, first examples I am aware of are 2003: Deus-ex Invisible War and 2004: Thief - Deadly Shadows, where the PC port is deliberately gimped due to being developed for console. GTA VC/San Andreas were worth at least waiting for at the time, due to proper mouse support and higher resolution. Previously the Doom/Quake version that was on console would be months/years late and cut down, but these 2003/2004 titles reversed the trend. There are probably earlier examples that I am unaware of. Between this effect, subscription MMORPGs and the inevitability of microtransactions I lost interest around that time.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      >Is there a mature discussion on the history of 'consolization' anywhere online The console market is huge as not everyone is tech savvy enough to maintain a gaming PC and bother with all the OS updates, driver updates, patches, HW upgrades and such. Lots of people just want to hop on the couch after school/work, pick up the controller and start playing. And since the console market is so big, it made financial sense for the game studios to use them as the lowest common denominator during development. More sales on more platforms = more $$$, despite the PC ports ending up sub-par. The dark ages ware during the PS3 and Xbox 360 days since those consoles used custom CPU/GPU architectures, radically different than PCs, which coupled with the low quality of the SW tooling and SDKs of the era made cross-platform game development a nightmare at the time so more often than not games made for both console and PCs turned out janky AF. But thankfully, since the last couple of console generations are basically x64 AMD APU powered PCs, and SW tooling is way simpler and more efficient and of higher quality so game devs can scale their engines and visuals much easier between console and PC reducing the quality discriminations. However, I have noticed that console gaming experience has gotten a lot more janky in the last few generations as their HW and SW have reached PC levels of complexity, with long waiting times, errors and crashes being more common than in the days of ROM cartridges. The new and powerful SSD-only, generation of consoles seem to reverse that trend though and bring back a snappy and more responsive UX. Although I gave up on modern gaming for the most part, especially the over-hyped AAA titles, the progress on the tech side pleases me (baring the chip shortage scalpocalypse we live in)
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Nobody should be surprised Rockstar went as cheap as possible and suckered everyone. Rockstar is infamous for milking GTA 5 while not spending a dime on doing anything about harassment/trolling/hackers. I stopped playing GTA 5 after some rando found me in one of the more isolated parts of the map and just decided to kill me over and over and over again. There was nothing I could do to get away from him; I'd respawn close enough to him, and nowhere near a vehicle, so I couldn't escape. They could easily grant temporary immunity or kick players who kill another player more than once in, say, half an hour....and instantly end the problem of harassment and trolling in-game.
- k4rli 5y ago
  What do you mean no way to avoid this? Just use passive mode for a while to get away.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Don't forget that thing about the 20 minute loading times on multiplayer.
- cbozeman 5y ago
  What you're describing is part of the game. It's like people being pissed off about PKers in Ultima Online 20-something years ago. It's literally what you signed up for. It's part of the world.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    The problem isn't player killing here, it's that you get repeatedly killed by the same person immediately when you respawn. That's just broken game design.
- _fat_santa 5y ago
  Passive Mode + You can just jump into another server. Heck on PC I know there were ways you can modify your network settings to ensure you're always dropped in an empty room. Great for CEO work.
_fat_santa 5y ago
> Despite being way ahead of any other game company in terms of R&D and innovation, they sadly decided to outsource these "definitive"versions and pay little attention to QA. One thing I really wonder if what codebase they worked off of. Seems like they worked off the mobile port codebase a few years ago, I've seen a few people mention that many of the bugs they saw in the Definitive Edition was also present in the mobile ports. To it seems like their big mistake wasn't necessarily the fact they outsourced everything, is they started in the wrong place. Codebase evolution seems to be: Original -> Mobile Port(s) -> Definitive Edition. They should have scrapped any changes made in the mobile ports and worked straight off the original versions.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 This is why I'm still a PC user. Whenever nostalgia hits and I want to play some old games, I don't need to keep around or source some vintage console hardware and games on the 2nd hand market or rely on some low quality ports that were most likely outsourced with poor QA, but I can just get away with installing the original game build off Steam/GOG or from two decades old cracked .iso files, and it will most likely work as Microsoft has done an amazing job with Windows backwards compatibility. And even when it doesn't work out of the box, there are enough resources out there from the community, with tweaks and patches, on how to get it running on a modern OS like Win 10 or even on Linux.

tata71 5y ago
...how does that help you follow the damn train, CJ?
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  You left Big Smoke behind, go get him!
astrange 5y ago
PS2 emulation works pretty well these days.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Sure, but why would you emulate something that already has a native build for PC?
  - beebmam 5y ago
    Many games for older versions of Windows will not on modern versions of Windows without emulators, like DOSbox
  - aufhebung 5y ago
    I think the PC build lacks some visual effects that are present on the PS2 version.
  - skhr0680 5y ago
    You need 5+ mods to the PC version of San Andreas before it looks and feels “right”. Look up SkyGFX for an example
  - asddubs 5y ago
    because the playstation 2 API is even more stable than the windows API, and it's neatly sandboxed
  - sergiotapia 5y ago
    pc versions of gta have had iconic music removed in updates and as of a few days ago you can't even purchase them anymore. emulate and enjoy the games at 4k upscaled running at 60fps with everything the original had. it's the best way to enjoy these older titles. even shadow of the colossus for ps2 upscaled is better than the ps4 remaster - the "tone" has changed in the remaster. check out some youtube videos.
  - nextaccountic 5y ago
    Emulation often has an easier setup: no need to install, for instance. If on Windows, no trouble with incompatibilities with old versions of Windows; if on Linux, no trouble with Wine setup and winetricks. Also, no worries with malware. Emulators also comes with "save states" (RAM dumps that save/restore at any point of time) and other features. It's really more convenient.
emodendroket 5y ago
Well, assuming the PC version isn't a half-hearted console port...
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  Is there a mature discussion on the history of 'consolization' anywhere online, first examples I am aware of are 2003: Deus-ex Invisible War and 2004: Thief - Deadly Shadows, where the PC port is deliberately gimped due to being developed for console. GTA VC/San Andreas were worth at least waiting for at the time, due to proper mouse support and higher resolution. Previously the Doom/Quake version that was on console would be months/years late and cut down, but these 2003/2004 titles reversed the trend. There are probably earlier examples that I am unaware of. Between this effect, subscription MMORPGs and the inevitability of microtransactions I lost interest around that time.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >Is there a mature discussion on the history of 'consolization' anywhere online The console market is huge as not everyone is tech savvy enough to maintain a gaming PC and bother with all the OS updates, driver updates, patches, HW upgrades and such. Lots of people just want to hop on the couch after school/work, pick up the controller and start playing. And since the console market is so big, it made financial sense for the game studios to use them as the lowest common denominator during development. More sales on more platforms = more $$$, despite the PC ports ending up sub-par. The dark ages ware during the PS3 and Xbox 360 days since those consoles used custom CPU/GPU architectures, radically different than PCs, which coupled with the low quality of the SW tooling and SDKs of the era made cross-platform game development a nightmare at the time so more often than not games made for both console and PCs turned out janky AF. But thankfully, since the last couple of console generations are basically x64 AMD APU powered PCs, and SW tooling is way simpler and more efficient and of higher quality so game devs can scale their engines and visuals much easier between console and PC reducing the quality discriminations. However, I have noticed that console gaming experience has gotten a lot more janky in the last few generations as their HW and SW have reached PC levels of complexity, with long waiting times, errors and crashes being more common than in the days of ROM cartridges. The new and powerful SSD-only, generation of consoles seem to reverse that trend though and bring back a snappy and more responsive UX. Although I gave up on modern gaming for the most part, especially the over-hyped AAA titles, the progress on the tech side pleases me (baring the chip shortage scalpocalypse we live in)

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Nobody should be surprised Rockstar went as cheap as possible and suckered everyone. Rockstar is infamous for milking GTA 5 while not spending a dime on doing anything about harassment/trolling/hackers. I stopped playing GTA 5 after some rando found me in one of the more isolated parts of the map and just decided to kill me over and over and over again. There was nothing I could do to get away from him; I'd respawn close enough to him, and nowhere near a vehicle, so I couldn't escape. They could easily grant temporary immunity or kick players who kill another player more than once in, say, half an hour....and instantly end the problem of harassment and trolling in-game.

k4rli 5y ago
What do you mean no way to avoid this? Just use passive mode for a while to get away.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
Don't forget that thing about the 20 minute loading times on multiplayer.
cbozeman 5y ago
What you're describing is part of the game. It's like people being pissed off about PKers in Ultima Online 20-something years ago. It's literally what you signed up for. It's part of the world.
- int_19h 5y ago
  The problem isn't player killing here, it's that you get repeatedly killed by the same person immediately when you respawn. That's just broken game design.
_fat_santa 5y ago
Passive Mode + You can just jump into another server. Heck on PC I know there were ways you can modify your network settings to ensure you're always dropped in an empty room. Great for CEO work.

_fat_santa 5y ago

> Despite being way ahead of any other game company in terms of R&D and innovation, they sadly decided to outsource these "definitive"versions and pay little attention to QA. One thing I really wonder if what codebase they worked off of. Seems like they worked off the mobile port codebase a few years ago, I've seen a few people mention that many of the bugs they saw in the Definitive Edition was also present in the mobile ports. To it seems like their big mistake wasn't necessarily the fact they outsourced everything, is they started in the wrong place. Codebase evolution seems to be: Original -> Mobile Port(s) -> Definitive Edition. They should have scrapped any changes made in the mobile ports and worked straight off the original versions.