3 ms·

Unless it's being intentionally adjusted for, this may be encoding a bit of bias regarding experiment duration and explore/exploit strategies. (It isn't a given

Unless it's being intentionally adjusted for, this may be encoding a bit of bias regarding experiment duration and explore/exploit strategies. (It isn't a given that the results would hold over 10x the duration, for example?)

AussieWog93 5y ago
I would also argue that the adults would suddenly become a lot more curious if they knew that the experiment would be 10x the duration, and each of those stars were instead dollar bills.
- Ginden 5y ago
  > if they knew that the experiment would be 10x the duration, and each of those stars were instead dollar bills. There is catch - adding money into equation can trigger "avoid risk" behaviours.
watwut 5y ago
The thing is, adults are in general more effective in figuring out strategy for changed situation. There is a reason why boardgames for adults are more complex then those for 9 years old. If the game was 10x longer, adults would behave differently.
- Jensson 5y ago
  The power of adults vs kids is the same difference as large codebase vs small codebase. Large codebases can do many amazing things quickly, but they tend to have a lot of technical debt making other things very hard to do. Kids are small codebases, they lack all those abstractions for solving problems quickly but they also lack all the technical debt, allowing them to quickly change and adapt their thinking. Why are adults better at playing games? Because good board games are designed to align with abstractions adults are likely to have and don't hit the parts with lots of technical debts. It is very easy to design games that goes against the abstractions adults have learned, but those games will be horrible to play so you wont see them. Edit: Also board games aren't meant to be mastered, you just need people to learn the simple basics. If you add the requirement to master the board game, then we can look at chess and see that people who started learning as a kid becomes way stronger than people who started learning as adults. Adults can learn to play chess much quicker than children, but an adult wont master the game.
  - watwut 5y ago
    I have kids. Small kids make eggregious logical mistakes. They have trouble to remember if they also have to focus on something else. They have super strong bias toward "immediate reward" over "reward in 3 rounds" - even if they logically understand, emotional appeal of immediate is too strong. And I am not even talking about "mastered" game. Most kids are not playing chess. It is not just difference in experience of board games. Small kids don't figure out completely new situation faster then adults. They just dont. The quickness of understanding comes in much much later.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      The first task of a small kid is to learn the structure of the modern world. That isn't in their genes, they have to learn it all, just realizing what "board game" means and why they should care about doing well in it is a monumental task, not to mention their lack of math skills makes most rational arguments impossible to follow. Adults have all of that for free and can focus on the rules, they have spent decades learning about society, games, standard board game idioms like turns and points, mathematics etc, no board game is completely novel to them.
      - watwut 5y ago
        I really don't think the difference between kids and adults performance is just in experience. Kids brains are not fully developed yet, in stages we are talking about. And when you interact with them, it becomes quite apparent. There are also psychological studies and experiments, plenty doable at home if you want to have fun, pointing toward the same. Kids older then toddlers care great deal about winning. It is not true that they don't understand why they should care. If you play boardgames with kids, they understand concept of board games in general. Babies don't, toddlers don't, but it is also impossible to play with them. Framing difference between kids and adults as just lack of experience and pre-existing knowledge is, imo, more of wishful thinking or theory then anything actually observable.
        Jensson 5y ago

AussieWog93 5y ago

I would also argue that the adults would suddenly become a lot more curious if they knew that the experiment would be 10x the duration, and each of those stars were instead dollar bills.

Ginden 5y ago
> if they knew that the experiment would be 10x the duration, and each of those stars were instead dollar bills. There is catch - adding money into equation can trigger "avoid risk" behaviours.

watwut 5y ago

The thing is, adults are in general more effective in figuring out strategy for changed situation. There is a reason why boardgames for adults are more complex then those for 9 years old. If the game was 10x longer, adults would behave differently.

Jensson 5y ago
The power of adults vs kids is the same difference as large codebase vs small codebase. Large codebases can do many amazing things quickly, but they tend to have a lot of technical debt making other things very hard to do. Kids are small codebases, they lack all those abstractions for solving problems quickly but they also lack all the technical debt, allowing them to quickly change and adapt their thinking. Why are adults better at playing games? Because good board games are designed to align with abstractions adults are likely to have and don't hit the parts with lots of technical debts. It is very easy to design games that goes against the abstractions adults have learned, but those games will be horrible to play so you wont see them. Edit: Also board games aren't meant to be mastered, you just need people to learn the simple basics. If you add the requirement to master the board game, then we can look at chess and see that people who started learning as a kid becomes way stronger than people who started learning as adults. Adults can learn to play chess much quicker than children, but an adult wont master the game.
- watwut 5y ago
  I have kids. Small kids make eggregious logical mistakes. They have trouble to remember if they also have to focus on something else. They have super strong bias toward "immediate reward" over "reward in 3 rounds" - even if they logically understand, emotional appeal of immediate is too strong. And I am not even talking about "mastered" game. Most kids are not playing chess. It is not just difference in experience of board games. Small kids don't figure out completely new situation faster then adults. They just dont. The quickness of understanding comes in much much later.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    The first task of a small kid is to learn the structure of the modern world. That isn't in their genes, they have to learn it all, just realizing what "board game" means and why they should care about doing well in it is a monumental task, not to mention their lack of math skills makes most rational arguments impossible to follow. Adults have all of that for free and can focus on the rules, they have spent decades learning about society, games, standard board game idioms like turns and points, mathematics etc, no board game is completely novel to them.
    - watwut 5y ago
      I really don't think the difference between kids and adults performance is just in experience. Kids brains are not fully developed yet, in stages we are talking about. And when you interact with them, it becomes quite apparent. There are also psychological studies and experiments, plenty doable at home if you want to have fun, pointing toward the same. Kids older then toddlers care great deal about winning. It is not true that they don't understand why they should care. If you play boardgames with kids, they understand concept of board games in general. Babies don't, toddlers don't, but it is also impossible to play with them. Framing difference between kids and adults as just lack of experience and pre-existing knowledge is, imo, more of wishful thinking or theory then anything actually observable.
      - Jensson 5y ago