4 ms·

I've noticed in general that a good place to look is in the therapies that are used in treating personality disorders, people with eating disorders, C-PTSD, PTS

I've noticed in general that a good place to look is in the therapies that are used in treating personality disorders, people with eating disorders, C-PTSD, PTSD, and trauma. Right now that's DBT for emotional regulation, but for the trauma itself, EMDR, somatic therapies, motivational interviewing, and things like Internal Family Systems therapy. CBT DOES NOT WORK for this population. DBT has been proven as well as EMDR but the other things need to be looked into further. A lot of these share biological tricks (the eye movement and work with your body) and the rest of them have borrowed things from mindfulness and work on radical acceptance and dropping judgement rather than overrationalizing. CBT at its core is constantly causing you to overthink and judge your own actions which is not something you want to do to someone who's already doing that. CBT doesn't really stand up against severe mental illness, so why should we expect that it's good for the average person who's suffering from some mild depression and anxiety? We have gold standards that can help people who suffer from some of the most treatment resistant forms of mental illness. Someone with severe CBT who responds to say, IFS after 20 years, you know that's not a placebo. This stuff needs to be studied more drawing from what we know about the populations who suffer the most, because we know that's not a placebo effect or a one off when we see people go into remission.

firecall 5y ago
"CBT doesn't really stand up against severe mental illness, so why should we expect that it's good for the average person who's suffering from some mild depression and anxiety? " Because the two are very different things! So very different!
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  I mean, yes, but also any therapeutic modality that works with these populations is tapping into some consistent realities about human nature that can be applied generally. The reality CBT is tapping into is that gaslighting someone into toxic positivity (or gaslighting someone at all) will show effects for a few weeks, but it's not long term. Our society doesn't value teaching children soft skills like healthy communication, or understanding what emotions are and distress tolerance around them. These are very basic things that a lot of people only learn after they get into therapy. And they help everyone if applied correctly. The skills you learn in DBT are skills that can help EVERYONE. When you learn how to communicate better at a gold standard you help yourself and the people around you. If we have a gold standard that can be applied to the most severe cases and help, and this isn't based on anything specific to those disorders but rather taps into some very core "how to be human and deal with weird lizard brain hurty emotions" stuff we need to start using that. Using our brains to rationalize our way out of emotions got us to where we are as a society now and it's pretty unhealthy.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    Anyone using CBT to make everything positive is doing it wrong. The guy who wrote the book on it says CBT should be used to bring your feelings into line where you think they should be. He explains what different emotions generally mean. CBT tells you to look at the situation rationally and evaluate if you’re falling into one of many cognitive distortions humans are prone to. If you should be angry and you have the appropriate level of anger at the situation, good. He specifically warns that using CBT to make everything good is actively harmful.
  - mek6800d2 5y ago
    If one dismisses psychological disorders as "weird lizard brain hurty emotions", then, yes, teaching children "healthy communication" (whatever that is) and "what emotions are" will solve all our problems ... once we figure out the "gold standard", of course.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
CBT doesn’t work for anything that compromises rational thinking. I’m bipolar. CBT works to help me maintain stability and stomp down the emotional overreactions constantly happening in my brain. It absolutely doesn’t work for mania or depression. My therapist was very clear that CBT only works on “normal people problems”.

firecall 5y ago

"CBT doesn't really stand up against severe mental illness, so why should we expect that it's good for the average person who's suffering from some mild depression and anxiety? " Because the two are very different things! So very different!

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
I mean, yes, but also any therapeutic modality that works with these populations is tapping into some consistent realities about human nature that can be applied generally. The reality CBT is tapping into is that gaslighting someone into toxic positivity (or gaslighting someone at all) will show effects for a few weeks, but it's not long term. Our society doesn't value teaching children soft skills like healthy communication, or understanding what emotions are and distress tolerance around them. These are very basic things that a lot of people only learn after they get into therapy. And they help everyone if applied correctly. The skills you learn in DBT are skills that can help EVERYONE. When you learn how to communicate better at a gold standard you help yourself and the people around you. If we have a gold standard that can be applied to the most severe cases and help, and this isn't based on anything specific to those disorders but rather taps into some very core "how to be human and deal with weird lizard brain hurty emotions" stuff we need to start using that. Using our brains to rationalize our way out of emotions got us to where we are as a society now and it's pretty unhealthy.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  Anyone using CBT to make everything positive is doing it wrong. The guy who wrote the book on it says CBT should be used to bring your feelings into line where you think they should be. He explains what different emotions generally mean. CBT tells you to look at the situation rationally and evaluate if you’re falling into one of many cognitive distortions humans are prone to. If you should be angry and you have the appropriate level of anger at the situation, good. He specifically warns that using CBT to make everything good is actively harmful.
- mek6800d2 5y ago
  If one dismisses psychological disorders as "weird lizard brain hurty emotions", then, yes, teaching children "healthy communication" (whatever that is) and "what emotions are" will solve all our problems ... once we figure out the "gold standard", of course.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

CBT doesn’t work for anything that compromises rational thinking. I’m bipolar. CBT works to help me maintain stability and stomp down the emotional overreactions constantly happening in my brain. It absolutely doesn’t work for mania or depression. My therapist was very clear that CBT only works on “normal people problems”.