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> You're operating under the assumption that cheating is a problem with the student and not the test. That's incorrect. We're talking about knowledge and correc

> You're operating under the assumption that cheating is a problem with the student and not the test. That's incorrect. We're talking about knowledge and correctness. If I present you with a problem, can you find a solution. Humans, correctly, will prefer the easiest solution. If your "test" has solutions that you don't want to accept (like cheating) that's a problem with your test, not with the solution. This is nonsense. Foremost the test is to help the teacher to understand the student. If the lazy student constantly cheats they will fly under the radar and crash hard eventually. Tests themselves are just a crutch. Modern education is about helping children learn in spite of sending them away with somehow comparable grades. > So the average education system is broken, the best solution we have, and the one we should implement is to break other things that are working as intended? It's not breaking things. It's a feature for a browser in a managed environment. When teachers would develop an electron app with the same functionality would you be happy?

grayhatter 5y ago
> This is nonsense. Foremost the test is to help the teacher to understand the student. If the lazy student constantly cheats they will fly under the radar and crash hard eventually. I consider my very self lazy, and I used to cheat on tests all the time. I haven't crashed yet. > Tests themselves are just a crutch. Modern education is about helping children learn in spite of sending them away with somehow comparable grades. I agree actually. Tests should be just a way to learn about students. But schools, teachers and students, assign value to the grades they get on these tests. If grades didn't matter to anyone but the teacher so they could learn how well they're doing as a teach, students would have any interest in cheating. But we're arguing about if disabling view-source is a reasonable solution to prevent students from cheating for how test are used now. And It's not. > It's not breaking things. It's a feature for a browser in a managed environment. When teachers would develop an electron app with the same functionality would you be happy? No, I'll be happy when people stop making excuses for bad design, and other people stop breaking features in a feeble attempt to fix a bug in a different and mostly unrelated system.
alpaca128 5y ago
> If the lazy student constantly cheats In other words the efficient student who used the path of least resistance. It is easy to call such people lazy, but in my experience that label is mainly used to avoid the responsibility of fixing the issue. People convincing me I'm lazy caused more damage than a whole school career based on cheating would have. Exams should mainly test understanding, not the ability to memorize things. Once you do that cheaters automatically become a smaller issue. Unless it's a memorization test(vocabulary etc.) there's no reason to withhold information imho, just like it doesn't make sense to have someone write software without access to Github or StackOverflow. > Modern education is about helping children learn In that case modern education is a total failure across the board. Maybe my non-neurotypical perspective is a bit biased, but it is difficult to think of just one instance where any part of the education system was actually helpful. Einstein's quote about judging fish based on their ability to climb trees never lost significance. Though I do have some understanding there; the education system in its current form does not attract competent teachers, and despite some awareness improvements rarely get funded beyond pilot tests.

grayhatter 5y ago

> This is nonsense. Foremost the test is to help the teacher to understand the student. If the lazy student constantly cheats they will fly under the radar and crash hard eventually. I consider my very self lazy, and I used to cheat on tests all the time. I haven't crashed yet. > Tests themselves are just a crutch. Modern education is about helping children learn in spite of sending them away with somehow comparable grades. I agree actually. Tests should be just a way to learn about students. But schools, teachers and students, assign value to the grades they get on these tests. If grades didn't matter to anyone but the teacher so they could learn how well they're doing as a teach, students would have any interest in cheating. But we're arguing about if disabling view-source is a reasonable solution to prevent students from cheating for how test are used now. And It's not. > It's not breaking things. It's a feature for a browser in a managed environment. When teachers would develop an electron app with the same functionality would you be happy? No, I'll be happy when people stop making excuses for bad design, and other people stop breaking features in a feeble attempt to fix a bug in a different and mostly unrelated system.

alpaca128 5y ago

> If the lazy student constantly cheats In other words the efficient student who used the path of least resistance. It is easy to call such people lazy, but in my experience that label is mainly used to avoid the responsibility of fixing the issue. People convincing me I'm lazy caused more damage than a whole school career based on cheating would have. Exams should mainly test understanding, not the ability to memorize things. Once you do that cheaters automatically become a smaller issue. Unless it's a memorization test(vocabulary etc.) there's no reason to withhold information imho, just like it doesn't make sense to have someone write software without access to Github or StackOverflow. > Modern education is about helping children learn In that case modern education is a total failure across the board. Maybe my non-neurotypical perspective is a bit biased, but it is difficult to think of just one instance where any part of the education system was actually helpful. Einstein's quote about judging fish based on their ability to climb trees never lost significance. Though I do have some understanding there; the education system in its current form does not attract competent teachers, and despite some awareness improvements rarely get funded beyond pilot tests.