10 ms·

Dataminers are finding developer comments and unlicensed songs in GTA Trilogy

155 points by bobitsaboy 5y ago

emsy 5y ago
> At the time of writing the Rockstar Games Launcher has been down for 24 hours. I wondered why I couldn’t start GTA 5 yesterday after finally finding some time to play PC again. So yeah not only fuck DRM, but ban it. Why is punishing honest customers allowed?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Levitz 5y ago
  >Why is punishing honest customers allowed? I'll go further, why is it punishing customers allowed? What authority does a company hold to punish anyone?
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    > I'll go further, why is it punishing customers allowed? Because it isn't disallowed.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Companies are not forced to provide service, even if the customer """bought""" something that requires that service to function. If it weren't "honest customers" being punished, but rather people being banned from accessing an online game for hacking or racism, we wouldn't see nearly as much concern for this being allowed.
    - aflag 5y ago
      The problem is that the only reason that something requires the service to function is so that the company can control how you use it. So, they are effectively stopping you from using a product you bought, because they can't keep tabs on you at that particular time. Some people consider that abusive.
      - judge2020 5y ago
        My point is that there's nuance in it, given this same "feature" of licenses (remember, you generally don't "buy" these games, you're granted an indefinite license to use them) allows game developers to even operate online PvP games at all. Without it, developers would legally be unable to ban people, even if they're vulgarly racist against other players, or if they're cheating and auto-snapping to people's heads to achieve high-kill count games unfairly.
        aflag 5y ago
        That is not true. They can have an EULA governing their online services, while allowing you to play offline to your heart's content. There is no nuance.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  I some wargames like indie game but required an online ping to even play. Their previous title they did the same but not required a connection for it. They said just for their other title, over 90% of them were pirated copies. So that is why they mandated DRM. I wouldnr have so much of an issue wirh online DRM if I got a guarantee of X years to play it. Some of these devs could just drop support or Windows messes with it that ita unplayable. So at that point I just want support.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  With those big titles I always treat them as something I can only reliably play for a while after I get them on Steam. This is also why I won't ever buy them at anywhere near the full price. I think I got GTA 5 for €15 in a sale. The whole notion that if I install that game in five years time and half the music is gone due to licensing issues is just absurd. I have no expectations that I'll be able to (legally) play such games five or ten years down the road when I buy them today. I'm looking forward to playing Hitman 3 eventually (if the previous two instalments are anything to go buy it will work flawlessly on Linux too), but I'm not getting it until its on sale (I guess Christmas 2022?); it seems like a game that is way too dependant on the parent company's servers to run as well, even though I only play the single player content. I miss the days when even the big titles just booted up without phoning home for permission to run.
atesti 5y ago
Has anybody found a link to these files (especially the main.scm mission scripts)=
- alternatetwo 5y ago
  main.sc is just one of the files the main.scm is compiled from. They actually published everything except the main.sc for GTA3 in the iOS release, years ago btw. Same studio ... but now they included all the source script files for all 3 games (probably not untouched, I haven't checked). One can probably get a gist of what they changed by diffing the iOS scripts against the new versions. They also included the script compiler, the gxt (text files) compiler ... War Drum/Grove Street Games really doesn't seem to know how to keep private tools/assets from being included in published versions. They also included alpha multiplayer maps in the iOS GTA3 release ... You should add your email in your "about" field ...
havkd 5y ago
Is it news that they are using ogg music files? San Andreas was already doing this in 2004.
- zehemer 5y ago
  I think the news is that these songs were not licensed for the remasters and don't appear in the remastered versions.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  They were especially doing that back then to avoid having to pay for a patent license for the MP3 codec. You could only play mp3s in the user playlist channel if the OS supplied the mp3 codec.
  - TD-Linux 5y ago
    Another reason many games use Ogg Vorbis is for seamless looping and zero delay sound effects. Gapless MP3 is a bit of a mess because encoders insert priming samples but there is no standard way to signal it in the bitstream. (it also compresses better than MP3)
  - havkd 5y ago
    Vice City predates San Andreas and used mp3 files for the built in radio stations.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - alternatetwo 5y ago
      And GTA3 used the codec for cutscenes, same as VC.
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Is there a commercial consumer OS that doesn’t provide an MP3-compatible decoder api?
kingcharles 5y ago
Question - I don't have the new DE version. There is a sign next to the bridge in GTA:SA which has stats on the front. What is on the back of it now? Did the developers keep the back of the sign or erase it because they didn't understand its true meaning? https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3ylmm4/a_staggering_127mb_san_andreas_bridge_facts/cyethcv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3ylmm4/a_staggering...
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  Many of the game's textures were seemingly upscaled with machine learning (or very poor human work) because a lot of the assets now have details removed. A lot of text is even misspelled in the "definitive" release.
- matxip 5y ago
  Unlike most others, they updated this one with care. I guess it's a somewhat notorious dev joke, so it makes sense. https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2246626-grand-theft-auto-the-trilogy-the-definitive-edition https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2246626-grand-theft-auto-the...
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    That's the front of the sign. The back of the sign is the real secret :) I'm trying to find out if they kept the back of the sign. See the Reddit link I posted.
    - renewiltord 5y ago
      The Reddit link isn’t particularly illuminating. Would you mind sharing what TFT means?
      - kingcharles 5y ago
        Let's pretend there was a secret video game cabal and they left their mark in many different places over the years. Of course, there is no cabal.
ajdoingnothing 5y ago
This is really interesting. I remember that the GTA 5 build log file was leaked back in the day. It contained a lot of interesting information too (e.g., something along the lines of an "auto play bot" which failed at a certain mission). I'm looking forward to some summary of this soon in a blog/Youtube video :-). That being said, it's a shame T2/R* is taking down/suing mods for this type of bad port. Despite being way ahead of any other game company in terms of R&D and innovation, they sadly decided to outsource these "definitive"versions and pay little attention to QA. In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 (probably even with a CRT TV) as that is the way the original developers really built it for.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 This is why I'm still a PC user. Whenever nostalgia hits and I want to play some old games, I don't need to keep around or source some vintage console hardware and games on the 2nd hand market or rely on some low quality ports that were most likely outsourced with poor QA, but I can just get away with installing the original game build off Steam/GOG or from two decades old cracked .iso files, and it will most likely work as Microsoft has done an amazing job with Windows backwards compatibility. And even when it doesn't work out of the box, there are enough resources out there from the community, with tweaks and patches, on how to get it running on a modern OS like Win 10 or even on Linux.
  - tata71 5y ago
    ...how does that help you follow the damn train, CJ?
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      You left Big Smoke behind, go get him!
  - astrange 5y ago
    PS2 emulation works pretty well these days.
MushyRoom 5y ago
The Nintendo Switch version seems to have a lot more https://twitter.com/nationalpepper/status/1459294881139023874 https://twitter.com/nationalpepper/status/145929488113902387...
IntelMiner 5y ago
A friend of mine called me late last night and told me some people were saying the entire game source code was leaked on PC, which was why Rockstar took down their servers for over 24 hours (and then brought it back up without the GTA Trilogy) I know that a lot of dev notes and other stuff have been leaked, but nothing to confirm the entire source code was leaked. Though I remain hopeful
- bozhark 5y ago
  still on switch
- Hamuko 5y ago
  Many people seem to be confusing uncompiled mission scripts for uncompiled source code.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
These GTA games are videogame history and put Rockstar on the map. Seeing how it is treated is just sad. This industry doesn't care about art.

155 points by bobitsaboy 5y ago

emsy 5y ago

> At the time of writing the Rockstar Games Launcher has been down for 24 hours. I wondered why I couldn’t start GTA 5 yesterday after finally finding some time to play PC again. So yeah not only fuck DRM, but ban it. Why is punishing honest customers allowed?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Levitz 5y ago
>Why is punishing honest customers allowed? I'll go further, why is it punishing customers allowed? What authority does a company hold to punish anyone?
- tomc1985 5y ago
  > I'll go further, why is it punishing customers allowed? Because it isn't disallowed.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Companies are not forced to provide service, even if the customer """bought""" something that requires that service to function. If it weren't "honest customers" being punished, but rather people being banned from accessing an online game for hacking or racism, we wouldn't see nearly as much concern for this being allowed.
  - aflag 5y ago
    The problem is that the only reason that something requires the service to function is so that the company can control how you use it. So, they are effectively stopping you from using a product you bought, because they can't keep tabs on you at that particular time. Some people consider that abusive.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      My point is that there's nuance in it, given this same "feature" of licenses (remember, you generally don't "buy" these games, you're granted an indefinite license to use them) allows game developers to even operate online PvP games at all. Without it, developers would legally be unable to ban people, even if they're vulgarly racist against other players, or if they're cheating and auto-snapping to people's heads to achieve high-kill count games unfairly.
      - aflag 5y ago
        That is not true. They can have an EULA governing their online services, while allowing you to play offline to your heart's content. There is no nuance.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I some wargames like indie game but required an online ping to even play. Their previous title they did the same but not required a connection for it. They said just for their other title, over 90% of them were pirated copies. So that is why they mandated DRM. I wouldnr have so much of an issue wirh online DRM if I got a guarantee of X years to play it. Some of these devs could just drop support or Windows messes with it that ita unplayable. So at that point I just want support.
Freak_NL 5y ago
With those big titles I always treat them as something I can only reliably play for a while after I get them on Steam. This is also why I won't ever buy them at anywhere near the full price. I think I got GTA 5 for €15 in a sale. The whole notion that if I install that game in five years time and half the music is gone due to licensing issues is just absurd. I have no expectations that I'll be able to (legally) play such games five or ten years down the road when I buy them today. I'm looking forward to playing Hitman 3 eventually (if the previous two instalments are anything to go buy it will work flawlessly on Linux too), but I'm not getting it until its on sale (I guess Christmas 2022?); it seems like a game that is way too dependant on the parent company's servers to run as well, even though I only play the single player content. I miss the days when even the big titles just booted up without phoning home for permission to run.

atesti 5y ago

Has anybody found a link to these files (especially the main.scm mission scripts)=

alternatetwo 5y ago
main.sc is just one of the files the main.scm is compiled from. They actually published everything except the main.sc for GTA3 in the iOS release, years ago btw. Same studio ... but now they included all the source script files for all 3 games (probably not untouched, I haven't checked). One can probably get a gist of what they changed by diffing the iOS scripts against the new versions. They also included the script compiler, the gxt (text files) compiler ... War Drum/Grove Street Games really doesn't seem to know how to keep private tools/assets from being included in published versions. They also included alpha multiplayer maps in the iOS GTA3 release ... You should add your email in your "about" field ...

havkd 5y ago

Is it news that they are using ogg music files? San Andreas was already doing this in 2004.

zehemer 5y ago
I think the news is that these songs were not licensed for the remasters and don't appear in the remastered versions.
tinus_hn 5y ago
They were especially doing that back then to avoid having to pay for a patent license for the MP3 codec. You could only play mp3s in the user playlist channel if the OS supplied the mp3 codec.
- TD-Linux 5y ago
  Another reason many games use Ogg Vorbis is for seamless looping and zero delay sound effects. Gapless MP3 is a bit of a mess because encoders insert priming samples but there is no standard way to signal it in the bitstream. (it also compresses better than MP3)
- havkd 5y ago
  Vice City predates San Andreas and used mp3 files for the built in radio stations.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - alternatetwo 5y ago
    And GTA3 used the codec for cutscenes, same as VC.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  Is there a commercial consumer OS that doesn’t provide an MP3-compatible decoder api?

kingcharles 5y ago

Question - I don't have the new DE version. There is a sign next to the bridge in GTA:SA which has stats on the front. What is on the back of it now? Did the developers keep the back of the sign or erase it because they didn't understand its true meaning? https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3ylmm4/a_staggering_127mb_san_andreas_bridge_facts/cyethcv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3ylmm4/a_staggering...

jeroenhd 5y ago
Many of the game's textures were seemingly upscaled with machine learning (or very poor human work) because a lot of the assets now have details removed. A lot of text is even misspelled in the "definitive" release.
matxip 5y ago
Unlike most others, they updated this one with care. I guess it's a somewhat notorious dev joke, so it makes sense. https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2246626-grand-theft-auto-the-trilogy-the-definitive-edition https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2246626-grand-theft-auto-the...
- kingcharles 5y ago
  That's the front of the sign. The back of the sign is the real secret :) I'm trying to find out if they kept the back of the sign. See the Reddit link I posted.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    The Reddit link isn’t particularly illuminating. Would you mind sharing what TFT means?
    - kingcharles 5y ago
      Let's pretend there was a secret video game cabal and they left their mark in many different places over the years. Of course, there is no cabal.

ajdoingnothing 5y ago

This is really interesting. I remember that the GTA 5 build log file was leaked back in the day. It contained a lot of interesting information too (e.g., something along the lines of an "auto play bot" which failed at a certain mission). I'm looking forward to some summary of this soon in a blog/Youtube video :-). That being said, it's a shame T2/R* is taking down/suing mods for this type of bad port. Despite being way ahead of any other game company in terms of R&D and innovation, they sadly decided to outsource these "definitive"versions and pay little attention to QA. In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 (probably even with a CRT TV) as that is the way the original developers really built it for.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>In any case, imho, the best way to play any of these original games is on a PS2 This is why I'm still a PC user. Whenever nostalgia hits and I want to play some old games, I don't need to keep around or source some vintage console hardware and games on the 2nd hand market or rely on some low quality ports that were most likely outsourced with poor QA, but I can just get away with installing the original game build off Steam/GOG or from two decades old cracked .iso files, and it will most likely work as Microsoft has done an amazing job with Windows backwards compatibility. And even when it doesn't work out of the box, there are enough resources out there from the community, with tweaks and patches, on how to get it running on a modern OS like Win 10 or even on Linux.
- tata71 5y ago
  ...how does that help you follow the damn train, CJ?
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    You left Big Smoke behind, go get him!
- astrange 5y ago
  PS2 emulation works pretty well these days.

MushyRoom 5y ago

The Nintendo Switch version seems to have a lot more https://twitter.com/nationalpepper/status/1459294881139023874 https://twitter.com/nationalpepper/status/145929488113902387...

IntelMiner 5y ago

A friend of mine called me late last night and told me some people were saying the entire game source code was leaked on PC, which was why Rockstar took down their servers for over 24 hours (and then brought it back up without the GTA Trilogy) I know that a lot of dev notes and other stuff have been leaked, but nothing to confirm the entire source code was leaked. Though I remain hopeful

bozhark 5y ago
still on switch
Hamuko 5y ago
Many people seem to be confusing uncompiled mission scripts for uncompiled source code.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

These GTA games are videogame history and put Rockstar on the map. Seeing how it is treated is just sad. This industry doesn't care about art.