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Dear HN: What should those of us who are completely powerless in this do? I am a fairly empathetic person, and the fact that over a billion people are likely t

by s5300 5y ago

Dear HN: What should those of us who are completely powerless in this do? I am a fairly empathetic person, and the fact that over a billion people are likely to die from wet bulb or whatever else, purely in the name of money, greed, & systematic buffoonery has me pretty mentally fucked up already. Would it be in my best interest to find some sort of drugs that completely turn off my empathy for the next two decades? Because the other options I can think of aren't very compatible with life. The outcome at this point is essentially inevitable, the U.S. seems pretty incapable of rolling out the amount of nuclear we'll need to divert a global catastrophe.

jstgord 5y ago
late reply .. here in Australia, party politics means a tiny minority of coal/gas enthusiast incumbents get sway over the general populations desires [ admittedly many of whom are apathetic, but not a majority I think ] This works both ways - if we can replace a few climate skeptics with climate action independent candidates then that might move the needle on government intransigence. Strangely, the uptake of solar panels has been great down-under .. yet the uptake of electric vehicles has been appalling, with state governments even imposing a road tax on sales. The real problem here is the government _subsidizes_ coal and gas, and we are even approving new gas fields for exploitation. It is hard to maintain empathy and hope and still be a realist .. but I hope you will stay motivated and take what action you can. We may be able to use tech in creative ways to circumvent government inaction - For example : instead of waiting for the government to roll out a carbon price or carbon tax .. everyday people may invest in a green-energy crypto token asset which is used to raise funds for clean energy projects ? side note : Ive been actively DIS-couraging smart people in Australia to talk about nuclear, here - the problem here is it would take 15 years to even do the paperwork, and we have shown very little competence in rolling out high tech engineering projects [ NBN broadband failure as one example, submarines another ] .. so I think unless you have nuclear in place or in development already, there just isn't time. Meanwhile we could and should be building as many solar plants as possible, in parallel, essentially without such major regulation needed. Dont let the bastards wear you down, keep doing all the things .. every ton of carbon we keep in the ground is a win that buys our kids time - so thankyou.
ahevia 5y ago
You are not powerless. Cities & states have huge power to help curb emissions. Check out the work by David Roberts over at Volts on WA’s amazing climate legislation that was passed in the last year. Legislation like that is possible because of average citizens. Find a local political climate group in your area. Work with them. Check out the recent Green Amendment that was passed in NY. That movement started from the everyday person. It’s passing as huge implications for future environmental law cases in the state. A similar amendment in other states has stopped the passage of expanding fracking operations, etc Keystone XL was stopped by everyday people. Line 3 is facing a resistance made up of everyday people. This narrative that we are “powerless” is exactly what the powers against us want. Research shows that climate anxiety increases inaction. Research also shows that people involved in community campaigns have lower rates of climate anxiety. If you live in WA or FL feel free to PM me. I have a lot of resources that could get you started
ahelwer 5y ago
I'm thinking the only way forward is building an alternative power structure to electoral politics that bullies the politicians around. Corporations and money control the government - it's a truism at this point. Place that which controls the government under democratic control and you have a democracy. So either building organized labor power within existing corporations or starting entirely new democratically-run cooperative companies to outcompete existing corporations. People want to keep politics separate from work, but this seems like nonsense to me. Reductively, politics revolves around who does the work, who pays the costs of that work, and who receives the benefits from that work. To separate politics from work when politics is about work is to throw away the greatest power you have - your contribution to the world through work. Voting every few years is so unimaginably paltry compared to using your economic output to have a say. People have this idea that cooperatives are inefficient, but ensuring profits stay within the company instead of being extracted off to people who had no hand in its creation is a burden they do not share. Microsoft spends $250k/employee/year on dividends and stock buybacks for shareholders. If this idea sounds interesting read the book Democracy at Work.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Money is just a proxy for power over people. Making decisions brings power, and since total democracy won't scale, representative democracy will inevitably put you in a position where one is susceptible to misuse power for personal gain and is vulnerable to being influenced to misuse power. I think the only way for a democracy to be stable and uncorrupt is to have far greater participation from a big majority of the population, which is kind of at odds with running a country in an efficient manner. So, instead of looking for a way to shuffle power around more efficiently, I'd love to see how risks could be mitigated so that when the system degenerates, the costs of restarting aren't as dire.
kelseyfrog 5y ago
Deconstruct the idea that this is the best we can do - our current political economy is not some inevitability. Human nature, politics, and economics are not fundamental facts. These are ideas are inherently self-limiting. They are constantly reconstructed in social interactions. Anyone telling you otherwise is unaware of how social knowledge works or has a vested interest in maintaining this illusion. Spread this idea and the idea of it spreading to everyone you know. Things are impossible, until suddenly they aren't.

by s5300 5y ago

jstgord 5y ago

late reply .. here in Australia, party politics means a tiny minority of coal/gas enthusiast incumbents get sway over the general populations desires [ admittedly many of whom are apathetic, but not a majority I think ] This works both ways - if we can replace a few climate skeptics with climate action independent candidates then that might move the needle on government intransigence. Strangely, the uptake of solar panels has been great down-under .. yet the uptake of electric vehicles has been appalling, with state governments even imposing a road tax on sales. The real problem here is the government _subsidizes_ coal and gas, and we are even approving new gas fields for exploitation. It is hard to maintain empathy and hope and still be a realist .. but I hope you will stay motivated and take what action you can. We may be able to use tech in creative ways to circumvent government inaction - For example : instead of waiting for the government to roll out a carbon price or carbon tax .. everyday people may invest in a green-energy crypto token asset which is used to raise funds for clean energy projects ? side note : Ive been actively DIS-couraging smart people in Australia to talk about nuclear, here - the problem here is it would take 15 years to even do the paperwork, and we have shown very little competence in rolling out high tech engineering projects [ NBN broadband failure as one example, submarines another ] .. so I think unless you have nuclear in place or in development already, there just isn't time. Meanwhile we could and should be building as many solar plants as possible, in parallel, essentially without such major regulation needed. Dont let the bastards wear you down, keep doing all the things .. every ton of carbon we keep in the ground is a win that buys our kids time - so thankyou.

ahevia 5y ago

You are not powerless. Cities & states have huge power to help curb emissions. Check out the work by David Roberts over at Volts on WA’s amazing climate legislation that was passed in the last year. Legislation like that is possible because of average citizens. Find a local political climate group in your area. Work with them. Check out the recent Green Amendment that was passed in NY. That movement started from the everyday person. It’s passing as huge implications for future environmental law cases in the state. A similar amendment in other states has stopped the passage of expanding fracking operations, etc Keystone XL was stopped by everyday people. Line 3 is facing a resistance made up of everyday people. This narrative that we are “powerless” is exactly what the powers against us want. Research shows that climate anxiety increases inaction. Research also shows that people involved in community campaigns have lower rates of climate anxiety. If you live in WA or FL feel free to PM me. I have a lot of resources that could get you started

ahelwer 5y ago

I'm thinking the only way forward is building an alternative power structure to electoral politics that bullies the politicians around. Corporations and money control the government - it's a truism at this point. Place that which controls the government under democratic control and you have a democracy. So either building organized labor power within existing corporations or starting entirely new democratically-run cooperative companies to outcompete existing corporations. People want to keep politics separate from work, but this seems like nonsense to me. Reductively, politics revolves around who does the work, who pays the costs of that work, and who receives the benefits from that work. To separate politics from work when politics is about work is to throw away the greatest power you have - your contribution to the world through work. Voting every few years is so unimaginably paltry compared to using your economic output to have a say. People have this idea that cooperatives are inefficient, but ensuring profits stay within the company instead of being extracted off to people who had no hand in its creation is a burden they do not share. Microsoft spends $250k/employee/year on dividends and stock buybacks for shareholders. If this idea sounds interesting read the book Democracy at Work.

eptcyka 5y ago
Money is just a proxy for power over people. Making decisions brings power, and since total democracy won't scale, representative democracy will inevitably put you in a position where one is susceptible to misuse power for personal gain and is vulnerable to being influenced to misuse power. I think the only way for a democracy to be stable and uncorrupt is to have far greater participation from a big majority of the population, which is kind of at odds with running a country in an efficient manner. So, instead of looking for a way to shuffle power around more efficiently, I'd love to see how risks could be mitigated so that when the system degenerates, the costs of restarting aren't as dire.

kelseyfrog 5y ago

Deconstruct the idea that this is the best we can do - our current political economy is not some inevitability. Human nature, politics, and economics are not fundamental facts. These are ideas are inherently self-limiting. They are constantly reconstructed in social interactions. Anyone telling you otherwise is unaware of how social knowledge works or has a vested interest in maintaining this illusion. Spread this idea and the idea of it spreading to everyone you know. Things are impossible, until suddenly they aren't.