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You state that as a damning statistic and my gut reaction was that it seemed high to me too. But what is a reasonable amount to spend per student? Beyond a gut

You state that as a damning statistic and my gut reaction was that it seemed high to me too. But what is a reasonable amount to spend per student? Beyond a gut reaction of that feeling like too much in reality I have no idea. An extremely simple divide by 365 comes out at $43 a day. When presented like that it doesn’t seem totally insane.

ianlevesque 5y ago
To just have them in child care, no education, for a year is $12,000-ish. It doesn't sound so crazy that educating them would cost a little more. https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/NY https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/...
bentcorner 5y ago
Average teacher salary is about $50k per year. Average student:teacher ratio is 16:1 (this feels low, but I got it from here: https://www.publicschoolreview.com/average-student-teacher-ratio-stats/national-data https://www.publicschoolreview.com/average-student-teacher-r...) So those $16k * 16 = $256k which can pay for about 5 full time teachers, which feels like it's in the right ballpark. 1 full time teacher, 1-2 part time assistants, and the rest peanut buttered across admin, other support staff and benefits.
- sagarm 5y ago
  Also facilities, materials (which teachers often buy out of pocket right now) and other services like lunch and busing. Students with disabilities and other problems also need to be taken care of, and often this costs significantly more. One way private schools save money is by simply kicking these kids out. School is mostly a daycare, and only a little about education.
pseudo0 5y ago
It seems kind of crazy that for that amount, you could hire excellent full-time private tutors at a 4:1 student to teacher ratio. I know a number of parents who felt that their kids got a much better educational experience through COVID "pods" thanks to the drastically smaller class size, but they had to pay for it out of pocket. But since it appears to cost the same amount, why not offer that as a publicly funded option?
- Iefthandrule 5y ago
  You are paying for education, transportation, and food. Are you sure privatizing that is a comparable price tag? I would like to see some evidence.
  - pseudo0 5y ago
    With the COVID pods, parents would handle food (often not provided by public schools anyways), transportation, and providing a location to teach. From talking to people in those situations though, the main cost was by far the tutor or instructor. Dropping the kids off or loaning out your dining room is pretty trivial compared to $1-2k per child per month in tutoring fees. Again though, I suggested adding it as a publicly funded option, not making it mandatory. If parents preferred a traditional school, they could do that instead. My point was that we could support alternative models like this with existing public funding, and it would benefit the children who perform better in a small classroom environment.
    - Iefthandrule 5y ago
      The annual cost cited earlier is not referring to COVID pods, so I would like evidence that the cost is comparable long-term.
      - pseudo0 5y ago
        Okay, taking Baltimore as an example, if you have a pod with five children, that's a total budget of $100k for the year. From some quick googling, Baltimore teachers have an average salary of just over $60k, but let's make it say $80k for a tutor to include the value of teacher benefits. That leaves a $20k cushion for food, field trips, classroom supplies, etc. This basic structure is something that homeschoolers have been doing for decades as well, with $0 government assistance. In that case, you typically have a co-op arrangement where the parents share teaching duties for a small group of children. It's difficult but possible, and government funding would go a long way towards making those sorts of models accessible to more families. Right now it virtually requires a parent working part-time, which is something a lot of households struggle to afford.

ianlevesque 5y ago

To just have them in child care, no education, for a year is $12,000-ish. It doesn't sound so crazy that educating them would cost a little more. https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/NY https://www.epi.org/child-care-costs-in-the-united-states/#/...

bentcorner 5y ago

Average teacher salary is about $50k per year. Average student:teacher ratio is 16:1 (this feels low, but I got it from here: https://www.publicschoolreview.com/average-student-teacher-ratio-stats/national-data https://www.publicschoolreview.com/average-student-teacher-r...) So those $16k * 16 = $256k which can pay for about 5 full time teachers, which feels like it's in the right ballpark. 1 full time teacher, 1-2 part time assistants, and the rest peanut buttered across admin, other support staff and benefits.

sagarm 5y ago
Also facilities, materials (which teachers often buy out of pocket right now) and other services like lunch and busing. Students with disabilities and other problems also need to be taken care of, and often this costs significantly more. One way private schools save money is by simply kicking these kids out. School is mostly a daycare, and only a little about education.

pseudo0 5y ago

It seems kind of crazy that for that amount, you could hire excellent full-time private tutors at a 4:1 student to teacher ratio. I know a number of parents who felt that their kids got a much better educational experience through COVID "pods" thanks to the drastically smaller class size, but they had to pay for it out of pocket. But since it appears to cost the same amount, why not offer that as a publicly funded option?

Iefthandrule 5y ago
You are paying for education, transportation, and food. Are you sure privatizing that is a comparable price tag? I would like to see some evidence.
- pseudo0 5y ago
  With the COVID pods, parents would handle food (often not provided by public schools anyways), transportation, and providing a location to teach. From talking to people in those situations though, the main cost was by far the tutor or instructor. Dropping the kids off or loaning out your dining room is pretty trivial compared to $1-2k per child per month in tutoring fees. Again though, I suggested adding it as a publicly funded option, not making it mandatory. If parents preferred a traditional school, they could do that instead. My point was that we could support alternative models like this with existing public funding, and it would benefit the children who perform better in a small classroom environment.
  - Iefthandrule 5y ago
    The annual cost cited earlier is not referring to COVID pods, so I would like evidence that the cost is comparable long-term.
    - pseudo0 5y ago
      Okay, taking Baltimore as an example, if you have a pod with five children, that's a total budget of $100k for the year. From some quick googling, Baltimore teachers have an average salary of just over $60k, but let's make it say $80k for a tutor to include the value of teacher benefits. That leaves a $20k cushion for food, field trips, classroom supplies, etc. This basic structure is something that homeschoolers have been doing for decades as well, with $0 government assistance. In that case, you typically have a co-op arrangement where the parents share teaching duties for a small group of children. It's difficult but possible, and government funding would go a long way towards making those sorts of models accessible to more families. Right now it virtually requires a parent working part-time, which is something a lot of households struggle to afford.