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There is also an emotional aspect to this. As someone born in Eastern Europe I feel that Brexit has been specifically targeted at our ethnic group. I have no in

There is also an emotional aspect to this. As someone born in Eastern Europe I feel that Brexit has been specifically targeted at our ethnic group. I have no intention of ever visiting there again, red tape or no red tape. I just don't feel welcome there and I feel offended.

markburns 5y ago
There are a significant number (probably a slight majority by now) of British people who are as saddened by this as you are. And not just the predictable econmoic fallout. I very much enjoyed the multiculturalism and there are plenty like me. The period from around 2005 onwards was for me a great time. European housemates, colleagues and cultural influence. It felt good to be part of something that crossed cultural boundaries. We've lost a lot. I think sometimes the unwelcoming voices are the loudest and are what sticks with us. We'll miss having people like you. Understandable for you to feel offended by the situation though.
- abraxas 5y ago
  I know there are plenty of people like you and I've met a lot of them during the time I spent there. But I had no idea that there were that many who felt the exact opposite. The emotions are still raw. I have good friends and a couple of amazing mentors who I left behind. What a total, utter mess this is...
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    I feel like britain has this kind of weird mix between a really racist and xenophobic press / ruling elite, and an actually pretty open population. I'm english and I feel totally alienated by the way in which UK culture has changed in recent years, so I can absolutely see why somebody from the rest of europe would feel alienated, but I think under that media verneer, there's the country I grew up in, which is pretty multicultural to its core.
- vadfa 5y ago
  The unwelcoming voices are not merely "the loudest", they are the most populous ones. I assume you are part of an economically privileged group, but to someone who has just lost his job to a pole, the coolness of "european cultural influence" does not mean shit.
  - abraxas 5y ago
    Are those people thriving now? Genuine question although I have a hunch as to the answer. Never in history did it turn out to be true when poor people's problems were blamed on some minority. In every instance I can think of the results were disastrous for the minority as well as the poor who were pitted against them.
    - vadfa 5y ago
      It's still too early to tell. There have been and there will be some (expected) problems, but we will only know in years or decades.
      - pcrh 5y ago
        >we will only know in years or decades. Rees-Mogg (an avid supporter of Brexit) famously said it would take 50 years to see any benefit from Brexit.
  - pcrh 5y ago
    Almost nobody lost their jobs to East EU migrants. Unemployment was at an historic low. In fact, the areas of the UK with the highest number of immigrants voted Remain (and just in case, EU immigrants were not allowed to vote in national plebiscites).
    - zenlot 5y ago
      That's true, and @vadfa is just being ignorant here saying "has just lost his job to a pole". There were what less than 4 millions(now probably less than 3 mil, and migration wasn't one way only) immigrants from EU in UK in a country o 66+ million people, and most of the britons were never happy to take the jobs which were taken by EU people, they were always better on benefits. They even have TV shows(Channel 5 I think) where they are happily showing people on benefits and how good they're living and how they won't ever work again. And yes, those are britons, not EU migrants. PS: those xenophobic/racist groups are very very active now after Brexit. They've always had that hatred, it's just now very visible. I'm driving a European car(left side wheel) with UK plates since 2007 (it's a good German car), and it doesn't feel like minority, road rage, looks, shouting etc when they see the left side wheel[after Brexit] is just amazing. Just few days ago woman was shouting in a car park: "I've passed my driving licence here [pointing finger to the ground, repeating multiple times]" with the comments that I shouldn't be driving in her country. Last year I've bought dash cam which I haven't felt was ever needed before and started reporting those hate crimes one by one with the video evidence. And police, fortunately react very swift and seriously to those. PPS: Europeans shouldn't feel that bad and think that everything is targeted towards them, UK has a huge national racism problem anyways, even for those whose parents are brits, who were born and lived here their whole life. Most recent big example was EURO 2020 finals (football) and the racist comments in twitter / press / public the players received who missed the penalties. And it's not a single incident, it's just a more public example of part of multiple happening every day in peoples lives. PPPS: there are many brits who voted to leave EU, but doesn't have any hatred towards EU migrants, they have just voted against European Union as an institution and wanted UK to not be part of it. The votes were not targeted only to migrants by some people, but the majority yes. I can't find that ad anymore anywhere (maybe someone has a link?), where ITV, Channel X and others were showing NHS before Brexit: full of migrants from EU in their sport suits and British elderly who doesn't have where to sit and need to wait long lines, because of EU migrants, and then life after Brexit, where NHS is just empty, welcoming every briton, no need to wait and elderly are happy. Those who wondering: nothing have changed in NHS, the situation is even worse now, because UK is short on nurses in NHS, who were largely EU workers.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>As someone born in Eastern Europe I feel that Brexit has been specifically targeted at our ethnic group. [...] and I feel offended. Meh, what you heard were mostly just the voices of a loud and stupid minority, not he norm in the UK. I don't see any reason to feel offended by that vote result, it's nothing personal. As an Eastern European myself, I found the UK to be the least discrimating and most fair towards immigrants than the other rich European nations when it came to glass ceilings for foreigners in their society. Eastern Europeans, and foreigners in general for that matter, hold many top positions in companies in the UK, whereas this is much less accepted in traditional German, Austrian, Swiss, French, etc. companies for example, who are far more elitist and openly discriminatory sometimes [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih5k7g8vUmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih5k7g8vUmE
- abraxas 5y ago
  > just the voices of a loud and stupid minority More like 52% isn't it? Granted not every one who voted leave did it to keep out the Poles. But it makes you wonder how many did and which smiles at the grocery store are forced...
  - I-M-S 5y ago
    All smiles at the grocery store are forced
    - abraxas 5y ago
      That was a figure of speech of course. Make it the office or the bus or the pub. Same thing.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >But it makes you wonder how many did and which smiles at the grocery store are forced Do you seriously expect you deserve genuine smiles from all service employees? And that if some don't do it it must be because of your nationality? Did it occur to you that maybe some don't smile because they work shit dead end jobs, for shit pay, dealing with shit people as customers every single day for months/years on end?
rwmj 5y ago
Sadly you are right that there was a small minority vocally opposed to migration from Eastern Europe. But take heart that many many people (the majority currently, 53% in the latest poll) do not support Brexit and want to rejoin the EU. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-rejoin-eu-shortages-polls-b1956786.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-rejoin...)

markburns 5y ago

There are a significant number (probably a slight majority by now) of British people who are as saddened by this as you are. And not just the predictable econmoic fallout. I very much enjoyed the multiculturalism and there are plenty like me. The period from around 2005 onwards was for me a great time. European housemates, colleagues and cultural influence. It felt good to be part of something that crossed cultural boundaries. We've lost a lot. I think sometimes the unwelcoming voices are the loudest and are what sticks with us. We'll miss having people like you. Understandable for you to feel offended by the situation though.

abraxas 5y ago
I know there are plenty of people like you and I've met a lot of them during the time I spent there. But I had no idea that there were that many who felt the exact opposite. The emotions are still raw. I have good friends and a couple of amazing mentors who I left behind. What a total, utter mess this is...
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I feel like britain has this kind of weird mix between a really racist and xenophobic press / ruling elite, and an actually pretty open population. I'm english and I feel totally alienated by the way in which UK culture has changed in recent years, so I can absolutely see why somebody from the rest of europe would feel alienated, but I think under that media verneer, there's the country I grew up in, which is pretty multicultural to its core.
vadfa 5y ago
The unwelcoming voices are not merely "the loudest", they are the most populous ones. I assume you are part of an economically privileged group, but to someone who has just lost his job to a pole, the coolness of "european cultural influence" does not mean shit.
- abraxas 5y ago
  Are those people thriving now? Genuine question although I have a hunch as to the answer. Never in history did it turn out to be true when poor people's problems were blamed on some minority. In every instance I can think of the results were disastrous for the minority as well as the poor who were pitted against them.
  - vadfa 5y ago
    It's still too early to tell. There have been and there will be some (expected) problems, but we will only know in years or decades.
    - pcrh 5y ago
      >we will only know in years or decades. Rees-Mogg (an avid supporter of Brexit) famously said it would take 50 years to see any benefit from Brexit.
- pcrh 5y ago
  Almost nobody lost their jobs to East EU migrants. Unemployment was at an historic low. In fact, the areas of the UK with the highest number of immigrants voted Remain (and just in case, EU immigrants were not allowed to vote in national plebiscites).
  - zenlot 5y ago
    That's true, and @vadfa is just being ignorant here saying "has just lost his job to a pole". There were what less than 4 millions(now probably less than 3 mil, and migration wasn't one way only) immigrants from EU in UK in a country o 66+ million people, and most of the britons were never happy to take the jobs which were taken by EU people, they were always better on benefits. They even have TV shows(Channel 5 I think) where they are happily showing people on benefits and how good they're living and how they won't ever work again. And yes, those are britons, not EU migrants. PS: those xenophobic/racist groups are very very active now after Brexit. They've always had that hatred, it's just now very visible. I'm driving a European car(left side wheel) with UK plates since 2007 (it's a good German car), and it doesn't feel like minority, road rage, looks, shouting etc when they see the left side wheel[after Brexit] is just amazing. Just few days ago woman was shouting in a car park: "I've passed my driving licence here [pointing finger to the ground, repeating multiple times]" with the comments that I shouldn't be driving in her country. Last year I've bought dash cam which I haven't felt was ever needed before and started reporting those hate crimes one by one with the video evidence. And police, fortunately react very swift and seriously to those. PPS: Europeans shouldn't feel that bad and think that everything is targeted towards them, UK has a huge national racism problem anyways, even for those whose parents are brits, who were born and lived here their whole life. Most recent big example was EURO 2020 finals (football) and the racist comments in twitter / press / public the players received who missed the penalties. And it's not a single incident, it's just a more public example of part of multiple happening every day in peoples lives. PPPS: there are many brits who voted to leave EU, but doesn't have any hatred towards EU migrants, they have just voted against European Union as an institution and wanted UK to not be part of it. The votes were not targeted only to migrants by some people, but the majority yes. I can't find that ad anymore anywhere (maybe someone has a link?), where ITV, Channel X and others were showing NHS before Brexit: full of migrants from EU in their sport suits and British elderly who doesn't have where to sit and need to wait long lines, because of EU migrants, and then life after Brexit, where NHS is just empty, welcoming every briton, no need to wait and elderly are happy. Those who wondering: nothing have changed in NHS, the situation is even worse now, because UK is short on nurses in NHS, who were largely EU workers.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>As someone born in Eastern Europe I feel that Brexit has been specifically targeted at our ethnic group. [...] and I feel offended. Meh, what you heard were mostly just the voices of a loud and stupid minority, not he norm in the UK. I don't see any reason to feel offended by that vote result, it's nothing personal. As an Eastern European myself, I found the UK to be the least discrimating and most fair towards immigrants than the other rich European nations when it came to glass ceilings for foreigners in their society. Eastern Europeans, and foreigners in general for that matter, hold many top positions in companies in the UK, whereas this is much less accepted in traditional German, Austrian, Swiss, French, etc. companies for example, who are far more elitist and openly discriminatory sometimes [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih5k7g8vUmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih5k7g8vUmE

abraxas 5y ago
> just the voices of a loud and stupid minority More like 52% isn't it? Granted not every one who voted leave did it to keep out the Poles. But it makes you wonder how many did and which smiles at the grocery store are forced...
- I-M-S 5y ago
  All smiles at the grocery store are forced
  - abraxas 5y ago
    That was a figure of speech of course. Make it the office or the bus or the pub. Same thing.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >But it makes you wonder how many did and which smiles at the grocery store are forced Do you seriously expect you deserve genuine smiles from all service employees? And that if some don't do it it must be because of your nationality? Did it occur to you that maybe some don't smile because they work shit dead end jobs, for shit pay, dealing with shit people as customers every single day for months/years on end?

rwmj 5y ago

Sadly you are right that there was a small minority vocally opposed to migration from Eastern Europe. But take heart that many many people (the majority currently, 53% in the latest poll) do not support Brexit and want to rejoin the EU. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-rejoin-eu-shortages-polls-b1956786.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-rejoin...)