4 ms·

So SAP as a "big cooperate" software concern isn't better then the other "big cooperate" software concerns. I know that is a bit sarcastic, but not only is IP

So SAP as a "big cooperate" software concern isn't better then the other "big cooperate" software concerns. I know that is a bit sarcastic, but not only is IP theft of big software concerns pretty common (the article makes it look like a sensation, a bit (bad) surprise). But at the same time IP law is often so broken that you could say probably every larger software out there does somehow infringe on some IP. So without having details is naught impossible to say if it's IP theft which should be IP theft, or IP theft which is only IP theft due to broken laws, and might also not be judged as IP theft after going through a expensive many year law-suite. And the article fails to lay down why it's the former (ethical questionable IP theft) instead of the later (ethical questionable IP claims). Through I wouldn't be surprising if it is ethical questionable IP theft. But I would even be less surprised if it a mixture of both.

dathinab 5y ago
For example: > konkurrenzsoftware [..] untersuchen zu lassen (roughly ~ Investigate the software of the competition.) is in the article made to sound bad, dodgy borderline illegal (and maybe was). But then investigating the marked and your competition is one of the most fundamental practices when it comes to competing on the marked as a large cooperation...
- oytis 5y ago
  Untersuchen sounds more like examining the details of how the software works (up to reverse engineering) to me, not market research.
  - dathinab 5y ago
    The word "Untersuchen" doesn't contain any notation about into how much detail you go into. It can be used in pretty much any context where you "look into something" from marked research to reverse engineering. Which brings us to the point that the article is missing details relevant for doing a judgement yourself, instead it does a judgement for you and then expect you to adapt that judgement without questioning it. For example the article could have stated that the students investigated the inner workings of the competitors software, it doesn't. It just states that the uni did some research into the competitors software, without stating the depth of the research and kind of research they did into it. (E.g. they could have research usability of "xxx software solutions" across the marked (including SAP) with SAP using that to gain a upper hand (== marked research), or they could have researched how "subset of xxx software solutions" handle case Y internally (== not-just marked research).)
    - robocat 5y ago
      s/marked/market/. Just saying in case English is your Xth language, or your autocorrect has gone weird (your English is great BTW).
- diarrhea 5y ago
  But essentially recruiting PhD students to reverse engineer/"examine" a competitor's software is twisted.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    So long as they’re getting paid for it. What’s the moral or ethical problem? Reverse-engineering is not illegal (at least in Germany, to my knowledge).
    - tpush 5y ago
      > Reverse-engineering is not illegal (at least in Germany, to my knowledge). Up until like 2 years ago or something reverse engineering was only legal for interoperability purposes AFAIK.
ksec 5y ago
>So SAP as a "big cooperate" software I still remember a few years ago half of HN have never heard of SAP.
- deelowe 5y ago
  It’s more common now bc sap buys huge cloud contracts.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
  I'd be surprised if less than 3/4rd of Germany's GDP touches SAP at some point.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Lol. Really? How is that possible?
  - alex_anglin 5y ago
    SAP typically targets big corps with large IT spend, not so much startups.
    - alistairSH 5y ago
      I guess. Seems like a pretty big hole in one’s industry knowledge. SAP is the largest non-US software company and one of the largest in ERP software and services.
  - ksec 5y ago
    That was my initial reaction as well. My theory is that Web Developers tends to dominate on HN, and most SaaS doesn't touch anything ERP.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  Much of FAANG runs on SAP. You may not touch it in your day-to-day work, but there is going to be a team dealing with it.

dathinab 5y ago

For example: > konkurrenzsoftware [..] untersuchen zu lassen (roughly ~ Investigate the software of the competition.) is in the article made to sound bad, dodgy borderline illegal (and maybe was). But then investigating the marked and your competition is one of the most fundamental practices when it comes to competing on the marked as a large cooperation...

oytis 5y ago
Untersuchen sounds more like examining the details of how the software works (up to reverse engineering) to me, not market research.
- dathinab 5y ago
  The word "Untersuchen" doesn't contain any notation about into how much detail you go into. It can be used in pretty much any context where you "look into something" from marked research to reverse engineering. Which brings us to the point that the article is missing details relevant for doing a judgement yourself, instead it does a judgement for you and then expect you to adapt that judgement without questioning it. For example the article could have stated that the students investigated the inner workings of the competitors software, it doesn't. It just states that the uni did some research into the competitors software, without stating the depth of the research and kind of research they did into it. (E.g. they could have research usability of "xxx software solutions" across the marked (including SAP) with SAP using that to gain a upper hand (== marked research), or they could have researched how "subset of xxx software solutions" handle case Y internally (== not-just marked research).)
  - robocat 5y ago
    s/marked/market/. Just saying in case English is your Xth language, or your autocorrect has gone weird (your English is great BTW).
diarrhea 5y ago
But essentially recruiting PhD students to reverse engineer/"examine" a competitor's software is twisted.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  So long as they’re getting paid for it. What’s the moral or ethical problem? Reverse-engineering is not illegal (at least in Germany, to my knowledge).
  - tpush 5y ago
    > Reverse-engineering is not illegal (at least in Germany, to my knowledge). Up until like 2 years ago or something reverse engineering was only legal for interoperability purposes AFAIK.

ksec 5y ago

>So SAP as a "big cooperate" software I still remember a few years ago half of HN have never heard of SAP.

deelowe 5y ago
It’s more common now bc sap buys huge cloud contracts.
isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
I'd be surprised if less than 3/4rd of Germany's GDP touches SAP at some point.
alistairSH 5y ago
Lol. Really? How is that possible?
- alex_anglin 5y ago
  SAP typically targets big corps with large IT spend, not so much startups.
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    I guess. Seems like a pretty big hole in one’s industry knowledge. SAP is the largest non-US software company and one of the largest in ERP software and services.
- ksec 5y ago
  That was my initial reaction as well. My theory is that Web Developers tends to dominate on HN, and most SaaS doesn't touch anything ERP.
saagarjha 5y ago
Much of FAANG runs on SAP. You may not touch it in your day-to-day work, but there is going to be a team dealing with it.