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until china starts moving for better rights for their citizens, i am afraid they should be held at arms length. cannot trust a government that lies that over 1

until china starts moving for better rights for their citizens, i am afraid they should be held at arms length. cannot trust a government that lies that over 1 million people are just being "re-educationed" and "happy" and "want to be there", there is a reason for distrust and it's not "xenophobic" to point out the regimes bs, the people of china deserve a better government. don't even get me started on hong kong. the whole situation is not fun

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
I agree. And we should also penalize any state that mass spy on their citizen, go to war against the UN decision while lying about WMD, teaches creationism in some shools and put mostly one ethnicity in privatized slave camps they call prison. Now if both those states would come to negotionate with each others, that would be interesting.
intricatedetail 5y ago
Bizarre that you have not been downvoted to oblivion. Probably because you didn't use a keyword that summons bots.
- cromka 5y ago
  You can only downvote on HN after you've acquired enough karma yourself. Bots can't do sh* here, thank you very much.
  - intricatedetail 5y ago
    Do you think PR agencies don't maintain such accounts?
    - scollet 5y ago
      Amazing.
  - Der_Einzige 5y ago
    Significant amounts of HN accounts with enough karma to downvote exist which are owned by bot farms.
    - cromka 5y ago
      If you know they're significant, then you must know which they are? Did you report it to admin? Or you just speculate?
Synaesthesia 5y ago
Yeah sure but we should do them also hold Israel at arms length for holding 2 million people in a literal concentration camp in Gaza and also heavily restricting the rights of Palestinians in West Bank. Why this is not called genocide when the Uighur situation is, is beyond me.
- gatlin 5y ago
  Both are genocides, without qualification.
saiya-jin 5y ago
The situation is +-same in more than half of the world, yet people in US largely don't care since its not part of ongoing medialized trade war. Compare it to Saudi Arabia which gets free pass on basically any atrocity because oil and US military bases. Or Pakistan supporting Taliban and de facto defeating US army in battle of mental attrition in Afghanistan from the shadows. Or Israel which is committing war atrocities on Palestinian population, and running biggest concentration camp in western world (Gaza Strip). And so on. Sure, they do bad stuff that they view will help them in future to have more homogeneous population. Which will probably end up true. You wanna 'held them at arms length'? Well slap tariffs on Chinese-manufactured goods, you can start with Apple products.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
OwlsParlay 5y ago
It's really not the business of the US government to be sanctioning China over "better rights for their citizens", when the US has already got massive prison labour camps, racist policing system, and has mishandled the Cvid-19 pandemic to the point where there's a million dead and more injured long-term from long Covid. China is not a perfect system, and the response to terrrorism in Xinjiang should probably not be extensive prison camps and a surveillance state - but again, the US doesn't have a leg to stand on for criticising this when their response to terrorism is to lay waste to several different countries and cause millions of deaths. It's all very well for us to sit here and wish for a better system in China, but we all have a much better chance of fighting for and winning a better system here in the USA that would actually change lives here.
- TheFreim 5y ago
  I don't understand your mindset, possibly you could expand a bit for me. Shouldn't the US try to improve China? Worst case scenario the US is hypocritical, but that doesn't mean it still shouldn't wield its power for good. Doesn't your position "make the perfect the enemy of the good"? I'm interested in hearing your response.
  - nextaccountic 5y ago
    But why China specifically? Why not wield this power to improve Saudi Arabia for example? (note that since the Saudis are allied and deeply rely on the US, it should be easier to sway them into doing good)
    - TheFreim 5y ago
      There are a variety of reasons proponents of changing China could make in response, for example since China is becoming (already?) powerful independently from the United States which could (already?) makes them a greater threat, having our opponents share as many values as possible would be ideal in a multipolar world order. However, I'm not arguing for that position, I just don't understand the idea that because the United States has failed on X, Y, or Z issues that that means we shouldn't try to solve those problems whenever they appear. Does that make sense? I can give clarification if needed.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

I agree. And we should also penalize any state that mass spy on their citizen, go to war against the UN decision while lying about WMD, teaches creationism in some shools and put mostly one ethnicity in privatized slave camps they call prison. Now if both those states would come to negotionate with each others, that would be interesting.

intricatedetail 5y ago

Bizarre that you have not been downvoted to oblivion. Probably because you didn't use a keyword that summons bots.

cromka 5y ago
You can only downvote on HN after you've acquired enough karma yourself. Bots can't do sh* here, thank you very much.
- intricatedetail 5y ago
  Do you think PR agencies don't maintain such accounts?
  - scollet 5y ago
    Amazing.
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  Significant amounts of HN accounts with enough karma to downvote exist which are owned by bot farms.
  - cromka 5y ago
    If you know they're significant, then you must know which they are? Did you report it to admin? Or you just speculate?

Synaesthesia 5y ago

Yeah sure but we should do them also hold Israel at arms length for holding 2 million people in a literal concentration camp in Gaza and also heavily restricting the rights of Palestinians in West Bank. Why this is not called genocide when the Uighur situation is, is beyond me.

gatlin 5y ago
Both are genocides, without qualification.

saiya-jin 5y ago

The situation is +-same in more than half of the world, yet people in US largely don't care since its not part of ongoing medialized trade war. Compare it to Saudi Arabia which gets free pass on basically any atrocity because oil and US military bases. Or Pakistan supporting Taliban and de facto defeating US army in battle of mental attrition in Afghanistan from the shadows. Or Israel which is committing war atrocities on Palestinian population, and running biggest concentration camp in western world (Gaza Strip). And so on. Sure, they do bad stuff that they view will help them in future to have more homogeneous population. Which will probably end up true. You wanna 'held them at arms length'? Well slap tariffs on Chinese-manufactured goods, you can start with Apple products.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

OwlsParlay 5y ago

It's really not the business of the US government to be sanctioning China over "better rights for their citizens", when the US has already got massive prison labour camps, racist policing system, and has mishandled the Cvid-19 pandemic to the point where there's a million dead and more injured long-term from long Covid. China is not a perfect system, and the response to terrrorism in Xinjiang should probably not be extensive prison camps and a surveillance state - but again, the US doesn't have a leg to stand on for criticising this when their response to terrorism is to lay waste to several different countries and cause millions of deaths. It's all very well for us to sit here and wish for a better system in China, but we all have a much better chance of fighting for and winning a better system here in the USA that would actually change lives here.

TheFreim 5y ago
I don't understand your mindset, possibly you could expand a bit for me. Shouldn't the US try to improve China? Worst case scenario the US is hypocritical, but that doesn't mean it still shouldn't wield its power for good. Doesn't your position "make the perfect the enemy of the good"? I'm interested in hearing your response.
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  But why China specifically? Why not wield this power to improve Saudi Arabia for example? (note that since the Saudis are allied and deeply rely on the US, it should be easier to sway them into doing good)
  - TheFreim 5y ago
    There are a variety of reasons proponents of changing China could make in response, for example since China is becoming (already?) powerful independently from the United States which could (already?) makes them a greater threat, having our opponents share as many values as possible would be ideal in a multipolar world order. However, I'm not arguing for that position, I just don't understand the idea that because the United States has failed on X, Y, or Z issues that that means we shouldn't try to solve those problems whenever they appear. Does that make sense? I can give clarification if needed.