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> Compared to a virus with a 99+% survival rate The virus wouldn’t have a high survival rate if we didn’t have these measures. Otherwise hospitals would be com

by p49k 5y ago

> Compared to a virus with a 99+% survival rate The virus wouldn’t have a high survival rate if we didn’t have these measures. Otherwise hospitals would be completely overrun, which would not only increase death rates directly related to COVID but also those of people with any other illness who rely on hospital care to survive. You can’t have it both ways: if you’re against the measures then you have to accept what that would mean.

ghoward 5y ago
> The virus wouldn’t have a high survival rate if we didn’t have these measures. Otherwise hospitals would be completely overrun, which would not only increase death rates directly related to COVID but also those of people with any other illness who rely on hospital care to survive. Where's your proof? Seriously. How do you know it would be worse? We might all have herd immunity by now and not be worried about it. Also, if people are so worried about hospital capacity, why are they firing doctors and nurses who haven't had the shot, but have natural immunity? The CDC recently admitted they have no data showing that people with natural immunity spread COVID [1]. Yet the vaccinated can (and if you don't believe that, then you have not been paying attention). So why are naturally-immune doctors and nurses being fired when we supposedly need them most, to stop ICU's from being overwhelmed? The reason is because it's not about health. It's about control. So when you bring up the argument that ICU's are being overwhelmed, I just ignore it; it's a distraction. You just don't know that yet. [1]: https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/cdc-admits-it-has-no-evidence-of-recovered-covid-patients-spreading-the-virus/ https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/cdc-admits-it-has-no-ev...
- p49k 5y ago
  I agree with you that people who have proven to already have antibodies should not be required to get a vaccine. That is a compromise that probably would have already happened if there wasn't a constant stream of insanity from antivaxxers clouding the ability to have normal, nuanced discussions about policy. Instead, the front lines of debate are on 5G causing COVID, microchips, space lasers, and comparisons of vaccine mandates to the holocaust. But the data showing that mass-vaccination has reduced deaths and kept ICUs from overflowing is so blatantly obvious that you have to be exercising willful ignorance to not accept it. It's basically flat-earth level of denialism. You can see the direct correlation between vaccination rates and deaths/ICU intakes by looking at the data.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    Sure, vaccines have reduced deaths...for now. Except, have they? Not really. [1] See the bump between July and November? That was after mass vaccination. That begs the question: what happens when their efficacy wears off, as it appears to do? It's not a flat-earth level of denialism. It's taking into account all factors, and in science, all factors matter. [2] [1]: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/ https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spr... [2]: https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matter/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matte...
    - p49k 5y ago
      > have they? Yes, they certainly have. Look at the ratio of cases to deaths in the data from countries where people generally believe in science and are accurately measuring data: Canada, Germany, Israel, France, etc. Look at Portugal, with the highest vaccination rate in Europe and see how there are 3-6 deaths/day despite a resurgence in cases. The US has a low vaccination rate, and is in complete disarray regarding COVID (in many cases simply due to the fact that each state has its own policies/problems), but most modern countries are carefully balancing policy to keep ICUs at a manageable rate.
      - ghoward 5y ago
        > most modern countries are carefully balancing policy to keep ICUs at a manageable rate. Why not allow nurses and doctors to be unvaccinated and "keep ICU's at a manageable rate"? Also, Israel was first to acknowledge the waning effect of vaccines. And for Portugal, when was their vaccination campaign? Was it less than 6 months ago? If so, the vaccines have not worn off yet.

by p49k 5y ago

ghoward 5y ago

> The virus wouldn’t have a high survival rate if we didn’t have these measures. Otherwise hospitals would be completely overrun, which would not only increase death rates directly related to COVID but also those of people with any other illness who rely on hospital care to survive. Where's your proof? Seriously. How do you know it would be worse? We might all have herd immunity by now and not be worried about it. Also, if people are so worried about hospital capacity, why are they firing doctors and nurses who haven't had the shot, but have natural immunity? The CDC recently admitted they have no data showing that people with natural immunity spread COVID [1]. Yet the vaccinated can (and if you don't believe that, then you have not been paying attention). So why are naturally-immune doctors and nurses being fired when we supposedly need them most, to stop ICU's from being overwhelmed? The reason is because it's not about health. It's about control. So when you bring up the argument that ICU's are being overwhelmed, I just ignore it; it's a distraction. You just don't know that yet. [1]: https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/cdc-admits-it-has-no-evidence-of-recovered-covid-patients-spreading-the-virus/ https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/cdc-admits-it-has-no-ev...

p49k 5y ago
I agree with you that people who have proven to already have antibodies should not be required to get a vaccine. That is a compromise that probably would have already happened if there wasn't a constant stream of insanity from antivaxxers clouding the ability to have normal, nuanced discussions about policy. Instead, the front lines of debate are on 5G causing COVID, microchips, space lasers, and comparisons of vaccine mandates to the holocaust. But the data showing that mass-vaccination has reduced deaths and kept ICUs from overflowing is so blatantly obvious that you have to be exercising willful ignorance to not accept it. It's basically flat-earth level of denialism. You can see the direct correlation between vaccination rates and deaths/ICU intakes by looking at the data.
- ghoward 5y ago
  Sure, vaccines have reduced deaths...for now. Except, have they? Not really. [1] See the bump between July and November? That was after mass vaccination. That begs the question: what happens when their efficacy wears off, as it appears to do? It's not a flat-earth level of denialism. It's taking into account all factors, and in science, all factors matter. [2] [1]: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/ https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spr... [2]: https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matter/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matte...
  - p49k 5y ago
    > have they? Yes, they certainly have. Look at the ratio of cases to deaths in the data from countries where people generally believe in science and are accurately measuring data: Canada, Germany, Israel, France, etc. Look at Portugal, with the highest vaccination rate in Europe and see how there are 3-6 deaths/day despite a resurgence in cases. The US has a low vaccination rate, and is in complete disarray regarding COVID (in many cases simply due to the fact that each state has its own policies/problems), but most modern countries are carefully balancing policy to keep ICUs at a manageable rate.
    - ghoward 5y ago
      > most modern countries are carefully balancing policy to keep ICUs at a manageable rate. Why not allow nurses and doctors to be unvaccinated and "keep ICU's at a manageable rate"? Also, Israel was first to acknowledge the waning effect of vaccines. And for Portugal, when was their vaccination campaign? Was it less than 6 months ago? If so, the vaccines have not worn off yet.