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> The prospect of cities with much less air pollution is wonderful. For cities with a dense urban core (of which mine, Philly, certainly is) I'm really hoping

> The prospect of cities with much less air pollution is wonderful. For cities with a dense urban core (of which mine, Philly, certainly is) I'm really hoping we lean in on bikes (electric or not) moreso than electric cars. Even less carbon-intensive to produce, and in a city with this level of density it's shocking how quickly you can get around by bike. I would go so far as to say it's often faster than driving if you consider the time you spend looking for parking. It's just that with our current car-centric infrastructure, it's way too dangerous. Plus with some e-bikes, you can detach the battery and carry it with you indoors to charge it back up. Try that with an electric car!

secondaryacct 5y ago
In Hong Kong, a bit denser than Philly (I googled for giggles: HK is 6300 p/km2, Philly is 4500 p/km, still surprisingly high), we have, I think, reached your no-car target simply because it's unthinkable people get cars when space is so rare and expensive (people here do mortgages to buy 200k USD parkings as retirement investment when they cant buy a home). Bicycle is non existent though, what is really different from my low density european experience is the amount and low cost of traditional taxis (Uber gave up and now is a normal taxi provider here because they cant beat their price - https://www.uber.com/en-HK/blog/introducing-uber-taxi/ https://www.uber.com/en-HK/blog/introducing-uber-taxi/ ) and the insane quality of the metro and bus networks (we didnt have double deckers every 5 minutes in my city in Normandy, we were lucky if the schedule was remotely accurate) I ve seen some other places more dense that american cities explode in little motor bikes (Taipei, Kuala Lumpur), but that depends a lot on regulation.
- jiggunjer 5y ago
  I think bike use would pick up if they had dedicated infrastructure in the city. They seem more popular in the suburbs (NT) where there are some dedicated lanes.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  Fascinating, why are taxi prices so low in HK? Competition? I knew that public transit there is one of the best.
  - hnfong 5y ago
    Taxi prices and permits are government regulated so there's no free market competition per se. The density of urban areas and the fact that people generally don't own cars help quite a bit since taxis are considered (somewhat) part of the public transport system and hence often utilized by the public (which I suppose means that taxi drivers idle less and this drives down the cost?) The cars are generally cheap (but reasonably sturdy) Toyotas, often old models, so the price of the vehicle doesn't drive up the costs. (I recall some places use luxury brands?) Interestingly quite a few taxi drivers drive a taxi not so much for the money (it always helps) but rather to ward off boredom post-retirement (flipping properties in HK used to be almost as profitable as flipping crypto). This might be "competition" of sorts but not sure. I think drivers generally make slightly higher than median income if they work long hours, but don't know how it compares with other places. The service level is generally shit though, some drivers literally refuse to make money if they deem your request a bit out of the ordinary (eg. refusing to take you for a short ride even if the fare per distance is higher than that of a long distance ride).
danielvaughn 5y ago
On the other hand, a bike-centric city would not be very accessible to people with disabilities. Having something in between, maybe trains or small electric buses, would be ideal IMO.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  That really depends on the disability. If you use a mobility scooter for example, particularly one of the faster ones, that's going to drive much more smoothly on a bike path than on the sidewalk (where the pavement is often uneven, you have to deal with the curb every block, etc). For that matter, not everyone can drive either. Some disabilities result in your license being taken away; for example, you may not be able to drive if you're prone to seizures. But you may be able to cycle! If bike infrastructure is done well, it should be accessible enough that those disabled people who can ride a bike are able to use it: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/02/cambridge-disabled-people-cycling-rolling-walking-stick https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/02/cambridge-dis... Now, you're right that people with some disabilities will not be able to cycle, or will not require a mobility scooter. (Although if you want one and can't afford it, that's also a problem, and I believe a common one here? Our healthcare system...) It's still important to have various accessible modes of transportation. Trains can be a good option here, though it's important that they have level boarding for wheelchair users and that all stations are likewise accessible. (Philly's unfortunately are not. The City Hall station reconstruction is long overdue.) And some people may always still need a car due to their disability! In the Netherlands, they have something called the Canta, which is a microcar specifically for people with disabilities that's small enough to operate on bike paths and can be parked on the sidewalk: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) And yes, some may need a full-sized vehicle as well; it's worth replacing some parking spaces with disabled parking spaces to accommodate that case. My point, though, is that our car-centric city designs in the US don't accommodate everyone either! We often consider it to be the default out of inertia, but it's important to remember that not everyone can drive a car, and in a car-dependent area that's a recipe for social isolation. Our cities should be designed such that everyone is able to get around quickly and safely.
  - 5y ago

secondaryacct 5y ago

In Hong Kong, a bit denser than Philly (I googled for giggles: HK is 6300 p/km2, Philly is 4500 p/km, still surprisingly high), we have, I think, reached your no-car target simply because it's unthinkable people get cars when space is so rare and expensive (people here do mortgages to buy 200k USD parkings as retirement investment when they cant buy a home). Bicycle is non existent though, what is really different from my low density european experience is the amount and low cost of traditional taxis (Uber gave up and now is a normal taxi provider here because they cant beat their price - https://www.uber.com/en-HK/blog/introducing-uber-taxi/ https://www.uber.com/en-HK/blog/introducing-uber-taxi/ ) and the insane quality of the metro and bus networks (we didnt have double deckers every 5 minutes in my city in Normandy, we were lucky if the schedule was remotely accurate) I ve seen some other places more dense that american cities explode in little motor bikes (Taipei, Kuala Lumpur), but that depends a lot on regulation.

jiggunjer 5y ago
I think bike use would pick up if they had dedicated infrastructure in the city. They seem more popular in the suburbs (NT) where there are some dedicated lanes.
slothtrop 5y ago
Fascinating, why are taxi prices so low in HK? Competition? I knew that public transit there is one of the best.
- hnfong 5y ago
  Taxi prices and permits are government regulated so there's no free market competition per se. The density of urban areas and the fact that people generally don't own cars help quite a bit since taxis are considered (somewhat) part of the public transport system and hence often utilized by the public (which I suppose means that taxi drivers idle less and this drives down the cost?) The cars are generally cheap (but reasonably sturdy) Toyotas, often old models, so the price of the vehicle doesn't drive up the costs. (I recall some places use luxury brands?) Interestingly quite a few taxi drivers drive a taxi not so much for the money (it always helps) but rather to ward off boredom post-retirement (flipping properties in HK used to be almost as profitable as flipping crypto). This might be "competition" of sorts but not sure. I think drivers generally make slightly higher than median income if they work long hours, but don't know how it compares with other places. The service level is generally shit though, some drivers literally refuse to make money if they deem your request a bit out of the ordinary (eg. refusing to take you for a short ride even if the fare per distance is higher than that of a long distance ride).

danielvaughn 5y ago

On the other hand, a bike-centric city would not be very accessible to people with disabilities. Having something in between, maybe trains or small electric buses, would be ideal IMO.

ryukafalz 5y ago
That really depends on the disability. If you use a mobility scooter for example, particularly one of the faster ones, that's going to drive much more smoothly on a bike path than on the sidewalk (where the pavement is often uneven, you have to deal with the curb every block, etc). For that matter, not everyone can drive either. Some disabilities result in your license being taken away; for example, you may not be able to drive if you're prone to seizures. But you may be able to cycle! If bike infrastructure is done well, it should be accessible enough that those disabled people who can ride a bike are able to use it: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/02/cambridge-disabled-people-cycling-rolling-walking-stick https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/02/cambridge-dis... Now, you're right that people with some disabilities will not be able to cycle, or will not require a mobility scooter. (Although if you want one and can't afford it, that's also a problem, and I believe a common one here? Our healthcare system...) It's still important to have various accessible modes of transportation. Trains can be a good option here, though it's important that they have level boarding for wheelchair users and that all stations are likewise accessible. (Philly's unfortunately are not. The City Hall station reconstruction is long overdue.) And some people may always still need a car due to their disability! In the Netherlands, they have something called the Canta, which is a microcar specifically for people with disabilities that's small enough to operate on bike paths and can be parked on the sidewalk: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) And yes, some may need a full-sized vehicle as well; it's worth replacing some parking spaces with disabled parking spaces to accommodate that case. My point, though, is that our car-centric city designs in the US don't accommodate everyone either! We often consider it to be the default out of inertia, but it's important to remember that not everyone can drive a car, and in a car-dependent area that's a recipe for social isolation. Our cities should be designed such that everyone is able to get around quickly and safely.
- 5y ago