4 ms·

> I hope this article will inspire people to look at e-bikes as potentially commuter car replacement, to send Bosch and other e-bike technology manufacturers a

> I hope this article will inspire people to look at e-bikes as potentially commuter car replacement, to send Bosch and other e-bike technology manufacturers a message that if they won’t supply what people need that they are going to have to live with people hacking their stuff and to get people to comment on the way the thing works, what they would do with it and how it could be improved or how I could work better/safer on stuff like this. i bought a Onewheel-XR+ a few months ago and then found a lot of reddit threads about how the mfg DRM'd the controllers to prevent people from adding longer range batteries and buildig their own apps to do diagnoatics over bluetooth. they sent cease/desists to several prominent modders. it's super sad. the modding community was very vibrant until they kneecapped it via firmware updates. their android app is bloated 42MB crap with social features that requires an internet connection and google's framework to connect over bluetooth to the board under your feet to read battery levels, change riding modes, control headlights, etc. previously there were third party apps < 1mb that could be used offline for this, until they crippled everything via firmware updates. now they released their new GT boards a month ago with extended range (and much heavier). the new Pint GT looks really compelling, so really torn about giving these sh*theads more of my money :( https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/l2vhra/future_motion_removing_diagnostics_from_firmware/ https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/l2vhra/future_mot... https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/kcl816/4209_or_new_xr/ https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/kcl816/4209_or_ne...

billylindeman 5y ago
LOL I built the first version of their android app back in the day. Can't speak to why they've been going after modders, but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint. At the end of the day I still love their products and currently own an XR (may upgrade to a GT next spring!). At least for the earlier versions all the info was published as standard BLE descriptors, so building a third party lightweight app for that is fairly straight forward. Not sure what they're doing these days, but if you wanted to investigate LightBlue is a great app for digging into BLE devices ;)
- leeoniya 5y ago
  > but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint sure. but also the same reason mfgs dont want their modded/refurbished/re-sold prev-gen products competing with their new products.
  - newaccount74 5y ago
    Which is stupid, since people who look for a cheap used option aren't going to buy a new product at full price anyway. They are going to buy a cheaper product from another company, and then you have lost them as a potential future customer. People who buy your companies used products are much more likely to buy your companies new products at some point in the future.
    - leeoniya 5y ago
      Sonos is another one that never got the message, until the PR nightmare that ensued. https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/30/21042871/sonos-recycle-mode-trade-up-program-controversy https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/30/21042871/sonos-recycle-m...
- Fogest 5y ago
  Is it really liability? Because I really doubt that. People modify vehicles all the time and it causes unsafe driving that can lead to collisions. The car manufacturer doesn't get sued because somebody made a stupid change. Maybe it could be a super minor thing they use as an excuse to prevent modding, but I think the actual answer is what the other commenter mentioned. They don't want their own product competing with their newer products. Someone won't buy their new product if they can just mod their existing product to get the same capabilities their new product gives. See the thing is; I think a genuine company would encourage a modding community rather than discourage it. This example may not apply, but take a videogame like Minecraft. They didn't have modding support built into the game but people hacked the game and built in their own modding support on top of it. This then allowed a huge amount of people to be able to much more easily mod the game using a modding framework. The game is hugely moddable on both the client side and server side. It was so successful that there are many companies that employ multiple people to run their Minecraft servers and code minigames for them. The game likely wouldn't have taken off as much as it did without these modding capabilities that Mojang let go on. I feel like more companies need to take this approach where they allow or even encourage modding. It brings more people to the platform. Especially in such a new market, making anti-consumer business decisions just seems like a good way to start your companies slow death.
nynx 5y ago
I think an open-source onewheel equivalent would be totally doable using VESCs.
- bdamm 5y ago
  It is. I built one.
  - bdamm 5y ago
    Here is a writeup: http://dammfine.com/projects/funwheel/ http://dammfine.com/projects/funwheel/
gh123man 5y ago
It's pretty insane how locked down their software is. I was looking into building a battery status app for the Garmin Fenix watches that connected directly to the board over bluetooth, but you need to fetch a key from their api with a carefully crafted request that is used to re-authenticate with the board every few seconds. If you mess up the API call they IP ban you and warn you of API abuse. Crazy: https://github.com/ponewheel/android-ponewheel/issues/109#issuecomment-569165296 https://github.com/ponewheel/android-ponewheel/issues/109#is... I love my Onewheel - but why can't they just open up a read only API for stats so people can build 3rd party apps around them.
- darknavi 5y ago
  Agree! I was just trying to do this with my PintX and an ESP32. Insane how locked down this is.
city41 5y ago
I love my Pint and was excited to also pick up the XR replacement once it launches. But not anymore, Future Motion will never get another dime from me. Please don't support them.

billylindeman 5y ago

LOL I built the first version of their android app back in the day. Can't speak to why they've been going after modders, but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint. At the end of the day I still love their products and currently own an XR (may upgrade to a GT next spring!). At least for the earlier versions all the info was published as standard BLE descriptors, so building a third party lightweight app for that is fairly straight forward. Not sure what they're doing these days, but if you wanted to investigate LightBlue is a great app for digging into BLE devices ;)

leeoniya 5y ago
> but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint sure. but also the same reason mfgs dont want their modded/refurbished/re-sold prev-gen products competing with their new products.
- newaccount74 5y ago
  Which is stupid, since people who look for a cheap used option aren't going to buy a new product at full price anyway. They are going to buy a cheaper product from another company, and then you have lost them as a potential future customer. People who buy your companies used products are much more likely to buy your companies new products at some point in the future.
  - leeoniya 5y ago
    Sonos is another one that never got the message, until the PR nightmare that ensued. https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/30/21042871/sonos-recycle-mode-trade-up-program-controversy https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/30/21042871/sonos-recycle-m...
Fogest 5y ago
Is it really liability? Because I really doubt that. People modify vehicles all the time and it causes unsafe driving that can lead to collisions. The car manufacturer doesn't get sued because somebody made a stupid change. Maybe it could be a super minor thing they use as an excuse to prevent modding, but I think the actual answer is what the other commenter mentioned. They don't want their own product competing with their newer products. Someone won't buy their new product if they can just mod their existing product to get the same capabilities their new product gives. See the thing is; I think a genuine company would encourage a modding community rather than discourage it. This example may not apply, but take a videogame like Minecraft. They didn't have modding support built into the game but people hacked the game and built in their own modding support on top of it. This then allowed a huge amount of people to be able to much more easily mod the game using a modding framework. The game is hugely moddable on both the client side and server side. It was so successful that there are many companies that employ multiple people to run their Minecraft servers and code minigames for them. The game likely wouldn't have taken off as much as it did without these modding capabilities that Mojang let go on. I feel like more companies need to take this approach where they allow or even encourage modding. It brings more people to the platform. Especially in such a new market, making anti-consumer business decisions just seems like a good way to start your companies slow death.

nynx 5y ago

I think an open-source onewheel equivalent would be totally doable using VESCs.

bdamm 5y ago
It is. I built one.
- bdamm 5y ago
  Here is a writeup: http://dammfine.com/projects/funwheel/ http://dammfine.com/projects/funwheel/

gh123man 5y ago

It's pretty insane how locked down their software is. I was looking into building a battery status app for the Garmin Fenix watches that connected directly to the board over bluetooth, but you need to fetch a key from their api with a carefully crafted request that is used to re-authenticate with the board every few seconds. If you mess up the API call they IP ban you and warn you of API abuse. Crazy: https://github.com/ponewheel/android-ponewheel/issues/109#issuecomment-569165296 https://github.com/ponewheel/android-ponewheel/issues/109#is... I love my Onewheel - but why can't they just open up a read only API for stats so people can build 3rd party apps around them.

darknavi 5y ago
Agree! I was just trying to do this with my PintX and an ESP32. Insane how locked down this is.

city41 5y ago

I love my Pint and was excited to also pick up the XR replacement once it launches. But not anymore, Future Motion will never get another dime from me. Please don't support them.