5 ms·

‘Play-to-Earn’ Gaming and How Work Is Evolving in Web3

kevinwang 5y ago
Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> In today’s episode we’re talking about an emerging model of gaming called play to earn, in which players can make actual money based on how much time and effort they put into a game. > Think of it as Pokemon on the blockchain, with a social network built-in, and an actual economy, and even companies built around the game that help players onboard and loan them money to get started playing. The game has made more than $3 billion in total sales since launching in March 2018, with much of its early growth in the Philippines. So play to earn is really borrow money to play in the hopes that you might be able to earn. And just for fun, let's target poor people in developing countries. "web3" sure sounds lovely. It's sad that the potential of the internet is only eclipsed by the moral depravity of the investor class that exercises so much influence over its evolution.
- dang 5y ago
  Did you not see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29190670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29190670? If you continue to use HN primarily for ideological battle, we're going to have to ban your account. We do that regardless of what people are battling for, because it's not what this site is for and destroys what it is for.
  - coolspot 5y ago
    They aren’t wrong tho. Both points are worth discussion: targeting poor with a new method of earning magic Internet money (actually a pyramid scheme). And major investors losing any moral compass by supporting that (e.g. “Bitcoin is a net positive for the environment” by Jack and Elon).
    - dang 5y ago
      Perhaps they aren't wrong, but being right vs. wrong is orthogonal to the site guidelines. We don't ban people for being wrong, and being right (if that's what this is) isn't a carte blanche to break the rules. Certainly if someone wants to post a substantive, thoughtful critique of those things, or different things, that's no problem. That's not what this was. Keep in mind also that when an account has been in the habit of violating the guidelines, being right (or feeling that they are) doesn't make that ok.
  - LurkingPenguin 5y ago
    No, I didn't. Maybe if HN had an effective system for mods to message users... It's strange to me that voicing an opinion about predatory businesses and lamenting the fact that these are supported by an investor class smart enough to see their predatory nature would be labeled as doing "ideological battle". Can you tell me what my ideology is? I'd love to know what ideology has an exclusive on calling out predatory business models and the people who fund them without any apparent moral qualms. In your other comment, you stated "It also looks like you're mostly using HN to argue about ideological and politically inflammatory topics." It's quite confusing. If there are "ideological and politically inflammatory topics" being posted on HN, any comment on them could be also conveniently deemed "ideological and politically inflammatory", no? You don't have to ban my account. I'll do you the favor of logging out permanently as apparently, Hacker News is a place where "it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" determines what's considered acceptable. Before I log off, one final note: I've traveled extensively in SE Asia (and in "poor" countries in other parts of the world) and have friends in places like the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. If you get a chance, I hope you can travel to some of these places. Try to spend some time with people who don't have much and maybe you'd understand how utterly harmful and shameful these predatory businesses are. Perhaps, having made real-life connections with the people targeted, you too might even see a post about these predatory practices and feel the urge to speak up about it.
    - dang 5y ago
      Moderation here isn't about predatory businesses, exploitative practices, or any of these other things, all of which HN users post critical comments about all the time. It's much simpler than that—it just has to do with your breaking the site guidelines, which you've unfortunately been doing repeatedly. HN users aren't allowed to do that, for the simple reason that we're trying to have an internet forum that doesn't suck (if possible) and doesn't end by burning itself to a crisp (if possible). That's all. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - 5y ago
  - Igelau 5y ago
    Where's the ideological battle? I don't understand. If you're carrying baggage over from a different thread, that's not cool.
    - dang 5y ago
      The comment was snarky flamewar fodder that invoked several provocative topics. That's all I meant in this case. Perhaps I should have gone with "unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments" or "fulmination" than "ideological battle" - but whatever the right moderation term is, the comment was obviously breaking the site guidelines. I referenced the other thread simply because we had warned the account so recently and I didn't want to assume that they had seen it and were flouting the request. I'm not sure what you mean by "carrying baggage over", though. Obviously we have to moderate accounts differently depending on different patterns of behavior. For example, someone who slips up and flames another user once, but otherwise posts well, is in a completely different category than an someone who does that all the time, who we may have warned multiple times already, indeed who we may have banned several times already. I respond differently in all these cases.
diveanon 5y ago
Play-to-earn is a really exciting area of development with a lot of cool ideas coming out of it. Many games are being developed now that are fully funded by fans and generating a lot of income for players. I know HN will shit on this, but for the more open minded among you I really encourage you to take a look at this space if you are planning to develop a game in the near future.
- petmon 5y ago
  Typically people spend money to play games. How can any game generate net income for players? It's not Wimbledon where fans pay to watch. I think any income must come from a stream of new players, meaning it's a Ponzi scheme.
  - exogeny 5y ago
    There are about 200-300 people who play fantasy sports full-time as a career on FanDuel and DraftKings. Probably another 20,000-30,000 use it as a legitimate stream of secondary income. Legitimate games of skill, when regulated, will always be able to support this.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      Based on the twitch leaks, the secondary income is probably, on average, insulting to call an income at all. You could make more money wearing dirty clothes and begging on the street.
    - petmon 5y ago
      Fantasy sports is explicitly betting, where any winnings are acknowledged to come from the losses of other players. On average, players will lose because of the house rake, but skillful players may beat the odds. Axie Infinity seems to be something else, where everyone can "win" just by playing the game. For example, daily quests provide SLP coin which is minted from thin air; there's no skill or risk involved here. The only way this can be sustained is with a flux of new players.
  - deleted 5y ago
jrm4 5y ago
Subsequently numbered "webs" are starting to feel like subsequently numbered versions of Windows. Better looking but worse.
LegitShady 5y ago
Ok I'll say this is a gambling/monetary reward system and thus needs to be restricted to adults. This "exciting" research is all about dopamine and addiction and from what I can see it's only going to disgusting places. Keep children away from these addiction schemes.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
1_player 5y ago
An an avid gamer that spends a lot of time and money on video games: fuck that. I'd rather grind and kill goblins in Lumbridge for hours for nothing than engage in any Play-to-Earn scheme. Fuck that dystopia. First it was microtransactions. Then it was gacha gambling games. Now it's ponzi schemes. You call it gaming, I call it milking the players dry.
Igelau 5y ago
TFA is about "Axie Infinity". With its kawaii-style graphics, it certainly looks like a game marketed toward children. Apparently you have to own three Axies to begin playing. At time of comment, the cheapest three are $116, $123, and $139. > companies built around the game that help players onboard and loan them money to get started playing. Bloody hell. Lure the kids in and sign them up for a $400 loan to start gambling on fake Pokemon. So many things are Bad and Wrong here.
- coolspot 5y ago
  Brought by Andreessen Horowitz Crypto Team: https://a16z.com/crypto/ https://a16z.com/crypto/ https://a16z.com/2021/10/05/investing-in-axie-infinity/ https://a16z.com/2021/10/05/investing-in-axie-infinity/ They are invested in multiple similar projects. Another one is Mythical Games [1] that develops Roblox analog called “Blankos” [2], also targeted at kids, it seems. [1] https://a16z.com/2021/11/04/investing-in-mythical-games/ https://a16z.com/2021/11/04/investing-in-mythical-games/ [2] https://blankos.com/ https://blankos.com/
Kaze404 5y ago
As if getting kids addicted in gambling CS:GO knives or Genshin Impact gachas wasn't bad enough, they had to come up with something even worse.

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.

> In today’s episode we’re talking about an emerging model of gaming called play to earn, in which players can make actual money based on how much time and effort they put into a game. > Think of it as Pokemon on the blockchain, with a social network built-in, and an actual economy, and even companies built around the game that help players onboard and loan them money to get started playing. The game has made more than $3 billion in total sales since launching in March 2018, with much of its early growth in the Philippines. So play to earn is really borrow money to play in the hopes that you might be able to earn. And just for fun, let's target poor people in developing countries. "web3" sure sounds lovely. It's sad that the potential of the internet is only eclipsed by the moral depravity of the investor class that exercises so much influence over its evolution.

dang 5y ago
Did you not see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29190670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29190670? If you continue to use HN primarily for ideological battle, we're going to have to ban your account. We do that regardless of what people are battling for, because it's not what this site is for and destroys what it is for.
- coolspot 5y ago
  They aren’t wrong tho. Both points are worth discussion: targeting poor with a new method of earning magic Internet money (actually a pyramid scheme). And major investors losing any moral compass by supporting that (e.g. “Bitcoin is a net positive for the environment” by Jack and Elon).
  - dang 5y ago
    Perhaps they aren't wrong, but being right vs. wrong is orthogonal to the site guidelines. We don't ban people for being wrong, and being right (if that's what this is) isn't a carte blanche to break the rules. Certainly if someone wants to post a substantive, thoughtful critique of those things, or different things, that's no problem. That's not what this was. Keep in mind also that when an account has been in the habit of violating the guidelines, being right (or feeling that they are) doesn't make that ok.
- LurkingPenguin 5y ago
  No, I didn't. Maybe if HN had an effective system for mods to message users... It's strange to me that voicing an opinion about predatory businesses and lamenting the fact that these are supported by an investor class smart enough to see their predatory nature would be labeled as doing "ideological battle". Can you tell me what my ideology is? I'd love to know what ideology has an exclusive on calling out predatory business models and the people who fund them without any apparent moral qualms. In your other comment, you stated "It also looks like you're mostly using HN to argue about ideological and politically inflammatory topics." It's quite confusing. If there are "ideological and politically inflammatory topics" being posted on HN, any comment on them could be also conveniently deemed "ideological and politically inflammatory", no? You don't have to ban my account. I'll do you the favor of logging out permanently as apparently, Hacker News is a place where "it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" determines what's considered acceptable. Before I log off, one final note: I've traveled extensively in SE Asia (and in "poor" countries in other parts of the world) and have friends in places like the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. If you get a chance, I hope you can travel to some of these places. Try to spend some time with people who don't have much and maybe you'd understand how utterly harmful and shameful these predatory businesses are. Perhaps, having made real-life connections with the people targeted, you too might even see a post about these predatory practices and feel the urge to speak up about it.
  - dang 5y ago
    Moderation here isn't about predatory businesses, exploitative practices, or any of these other things, all of which HN users post critical comments about all the time. It's much simpler than that—it just has to do with your breaking the site guidelines, which you've unfortunately been doing repeatedly. HN users aren't allowed to do that, for the simple reason that we're trying to have an internet forum that doesn't suck (if possible) and doesn't end by burning itself to a crisp (if possible). That's all. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 5y ago
- Igelau 5y ago
  Where's the ideological battle? I don't understand. If you're carrying baggage over from a different thread, that's not cool.
  - dang 5y ago
    The comment was snarky flamewar fodder that invoked several provocative topics. That's all I meant in this case. Perhaps I should have gone with "unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments" or "fulmination" than "ideological battle" - but whatever the right moderation term is, the comment was obviously breaking the site guidelines. I referenced the other thread simply because we had warned the account so recently and I didn't want to assume that they had seen it and were flouting the request. I'm not sure what you mean by "carrying baggage over", though. Obviously we have to moderate accounts differently depending on different patterns of behavior. For example, someone who slips up and flames another user once, but otherwise posts well, is in a completely different category than an someone who does that all the time, who we may have warned multiple times already, indeed who we may have banned several times already. I respond differently in all these cases.

diveanon 5y ago

Play-to-earn is a really exciting area of development with a lot of cool ideas coming out of it. Many games are being developed now that are fully funded by fans and generating a lot of income for players. I know HN will shit on this, but for the more open minded among you I really encourage you to take a look at this space if you are planning to develop a game in the near future.

petmon 5y ago
Typically people spend money to play games. How can any game generate net income for players? It's not Wimbledon where fans pay to watch. I think any income must come from a stream of new players, meaning it's a Ponzi scheme.
- exogeny 5y ago
  There are about 200-300 people who play fantasy sports full-time as a career on FanDuel and DraftKings. Probably another 20,000-30,000 use it as a legitimate stream of secondary income. Legitimate games of skill, when regulated, will always be able to support this.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    Based on the twitch leaks, the secondary income is probably, on average, insulting to call an income at all. You could make more money wearing dirty clothes and begging on the street.
  - petmon 5y ago
    Fantasy sports is explicitly betting, where any winnings are acknowledged to come from the losses of other players. On average, players will lose because of the house rake, but skillful players may beat the odds. Axie Infinity seems to be something else, where everyone can "win" just by playing the game. For example, daily quests provide SLP coin which is minted from thin air; there's no skill or risk involved here. The only way this can be sustained is with a flux of new players.
- deleted 5y ago

jrm4 5y ago

Subsequently numbered "webs" are starting to feel like subsequently numbered versions of Windows. Better looking but worse.

LegitShady 5y ago

Ok I'll say this is a gambling/monetary reward system and thus needs to be restricted to adults. This "exciting" research is all about dopamine and addiction and from what I can see it's only going to disgusting places. Keep children away from these addiction schemes.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

1_player 5y ago

An an avid gamer that spends a lot of time and money on video games: fuck that. I'd rather grind and kill goblins in Lumbridge for hours for nothing than engage in any Play-to-Earn scheme. Fuck that dystopia. First it was microtransactions. Then it was gacha gambling games. Now it's ponzi schemes. You call it gaming, I call it milking the players dry.

Igelau 5y ago

TFA is about "Axie Infinity". With its kawaii-style graphics, it certainly looks like a game marketed toward children. Apparently you have to own three Axies to begin playing. At time of comment, the cheapest three are $116, $123, and $139. > companies built around the game that help players onboard and loan them money to get started playing. Bloody hell. Lure the kids in and sign them up for a $400 loan to start gambling on fake Pokemon. So many things are Bad and Wrong here.

coolspot 5y ago
Brought by Andreessen Horowitz Crypto Team: https://a16z.com/crypto/ https://a16z.com/crypto/ https://a16z.com/2021/10/05/investing-in-axie-infinity/ https://a16z.com/2021/10/05/investing-in-axie-infinity/ They are invested in multiple similar projects. Another one is Mythical Games [1] that develops Roblox analog called “Blankos” [2], also targeted at kids, it seems. [1] https://a16z.com/2021/11/04/investing-in-mythical-games/ https://a16z.com/2021/11/04/investing-in-mythical-games/ [2] https://blankos.com/ https://blankos.com/

Kaze404 5y ago

As if getting kids addicted in gambling CS:GO knives or Genshin Impact gachas wasn't bad enough, they had to come up with something even worse.