3 ms·

Correct me if I'm wrong - but haven't polygraphs been thoroughly discredited?

phkahler 5y ago
I think the notion of "lie detector" has been discredited. Someone who wants to learn to pass a polygraph can probably do so. Screening applicants for vulnerability doesn't have to be a perfect process as it's part of a larger security system.
appletrotter 5y ago
not quite. they do provide meaningful information, just not good evidence to a court.
woodruffw 5y ago
Yes. They're part of the clearance process for psychological reasons.
- version_five 5y ago
  Ironically, a layperson probably would give away their secrets easily because of the anxiety of the situation, while someone who might actually be an offensive threat is more likely to be able to beat a polygraph. Realistically, they are probably very effective at verifying whether normal people have secrets that could be used for blackmail, as you say, because of the psychology, even if the machine isn't actually doing anything. Anecdotally, I've heard of security interviews (for government intelligence, I can't give context) where the interviewer just says "i'll know if you lie". For the average person this is enough to make them flustered if asked an awkward question.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I think that’s the goal: the polygraph isn’t supposed to catch a pathological liar or mole. It’s supposed to fluster you into telling the truth, even the embarrassing truth, to ensure that you can’t be blackmailed or extorted. I’ve heard my fair share of funny(?) stories about polygraph admissions that basically ended in the interviewer shrugging and saying “well, at least you didn’t hide it.”
  - xxpor 5y ago
    I've heard stories about the polygraphs that basically boil down to: we don't care if you smoke weed. we DO care that you tell us and don't lie about it.
  - starwind 5y ago
    I heard about one guy who couldn’t pass the poly no matter how many times he took it. He chalked it up to Catholic guilt. He ended up going to work for a different company doing rocket stuff (I think the ULA) cause he could use his clearance but they didn’t require polys. He might even still have access to JWICS in his new job
- samstave 5y ago
  WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A White House whistleblower has said the Trump administration overruled security experts to give questionable security clearances to more than two dozen people, including the president’s daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-clearances/whistleblower-says-ivanka-jared-got-security-clearance-over-experts-advice-idUSKCN1RD2HU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-clearances/whis...
  - ttyprintk 5y ago
    I wouldn’t be surprised if, maybe you do some shitty work for free, we’ll pay you with “Q”.
jdavis703 5y ago
Yes, they’ve been discredited as a binary, true or false, lie detector. However a skilled investigator can still use polygraphs as one tool in a toolbox to hone in on particular areas. They can then either have the subject contradict themselves or find areas to further investigate (e.g. asking the neighbors what sorts of people the subject has over.)
orangepurple 5y ago
Polygraphs are used for bullying adults into confessing things they normally wouldn't.
euroderf 5y ago
I've read that something as simple as curling your toes makes the readings unreliable.

I think the notion of "lie detector" has been discredited. Someone who wants to learn to pass a polygraph can probably do so. Screening applicants for vulnerability doesn't have to be a perfect process as it's part of a larger security system.

appletrotter 5y ago

not quite. they do provide meaningful information, just not good evidence to a court.

woodruffw 5y ago

Yes. They're part of the clearance process for psychological reasons.

version_five 5y ago
Ironically, a layperson probably would give away their secrets easily because of the anxiety of the situation, while someone who might actually be an offensive threat is more likely to be able to beat a polygraph. Realistically, they are probably very effective at verifying whether normal people have secrets that could be used for blackmail, as you say, because of the psychology, even if the machine isn't actually doing anything. Anecdotally, I've heard of security interviews (for government intelligence, I can't give context) where the interviewer just says "i'll know if you lie". For the average person this is enough to make them flustered if asked an awkward question.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I think that’s the goal: the polygraph isn’t supposed to catch a pathological liar or mole. It’s supposed to fluster you into telling the truth, even the embarrassing truth, to ensure that you can’t be blackmailed or extorted. I’ve heard my fair share of funny(?) stories about polygraph admissions that basically ended in the interviewer shrugging and saying “well, at least you didn’t hide it.”
- xxpor 5y ago
  I've heard stories about the polygraphs that basically boil down to: we don't care if you smoke weed. we DO care that you tell us and don't lie about it.
- starwind 5y ago
  I heard about one guy who couldn’t pass the poly no matter how many times he took it. He chalked it up to Catholic guilt. He ended up going to work for a different company doing rocket stuff (I think the ULA) cause he could use his clearance but they didn’t require polys. He might even still have access to JWICS in his new job
samstave 5y ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A White House whistleblower has said the Trump administration overruled security experts to give questionable security clearances to more than two dozen people, including the president’s daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-clearances/whistleblower-says-ivanka-jared-got-security-clearance-over-experts-advice-idUSKCN1RD2HU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-clearances/whis...
- ttyprintk 5y ago
  I wouldn’t be surprised if, maybe you do some shitty work for free, we’ll pay you with “Q”.

jdavis703 5y ago

Yes, they’ve been discredited as a binary, true or false, lie detector. However a skilled investigator can still use polygraphs as one tool in a toolbox to hone in on particular areas. They can then either have the subject contradict themselves or find areas to further investigate (e.g. asking the neighbors what sorts of people the subject has over.)

orangepurple 5y ago

Polygraphs are used for bullying adults into confessing things they normally wouldn't.

euroderf 5y ago

I've read that something as simple as curling your toes makes the readings unreliable.