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>It doesn't mean that you should abruptly stop doing any business with China, but that you (and Apple!) should at least start thinking how to change that. Hone

>It doesn't mean that you should abruptly stop doing any business with China, but that you (and Apple!) should at least start thinking how to change that. Honestly, the CCP are doing a damn fine job of that themselves - scaring away foreign investors and businesses and dragging their own country's reputation through the mud. I rely on China for sourcing goods for my business, and I would genuinely switch away from them in a heartbeat if the same industry existed anywhere else (not just for moral reasons; I'm genuinely worried about some idiotic government intervention or international sanctions). Vietnam, please hurry up!

emptysongglass 5y ago
Isn't Vietnam set up with an equally stacked regime that given power and international influence stands to look a lot like yet another autocracy? If you don't think so, I'd appreciate an analysis why not.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Yes, Vietnam essentially has the exact same political system as China. Vietnam is not a strategic competitor of the United States so we pretend it's different.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    There are definitely some quite noticeable differences. Far less censorship, far less party interference in everyday life, no one person in control of everything (and that is by design), and a very different history (The Vietnamese Communists fought for independence, and Ho even asked the US for support before going to the Soviets. The CCP, on the other hand fought for control of what was at that stage an already independent country "liberated" by the KMT). Saying China and Vietnam are the same is like saying Gorbachev and Stalin were the same. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam continued to liberalise and peacefully transition to a democracy over the next 2-3 decades. The CCP, though, would let the country burn to the ground before they released their grip on power.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      What do you mean far less censorship? The censorship of Vietnamese media in Vietnam is just as strong as Chinese media in China. "Liberal" anglophone media is a deliberate government tactic to draw in investment - see the English versions of state media and compare them to the Vietnamese editions. Power is just as concentrated in Vietnam as in China. There are massive factions that are aligned with Xi and that lead to the current policy. When those factions align behind Phu Trong we identify those factions as being decisive. In reality the two are very similar. The CCP was founded almost at the same time as the KMT. They had almost identical founding objectives. Yes the KMT did most of the work early on but the CCP still fought the Japanese and they were not founded to overthrow the KMT. I'm not saying that Stalin and Gorbachev are the same. I'm saying that Khrushchev and a Gorbachev which would have been successful would be similar.

emptysongglass 5y ago

Isn't Vietnam set up with an equally stacked regime that given power and international influence stands to look a lot like yet another autocracy? If you don't think so, I'd appreciate an analysis why not.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Yes, Vietnam essentially has the exact same political system as China. Vietnam is not a strategic competitor of the United States so we pretend it's different.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  There are definitely some quite noticeable differences. Far less censorship, far less party interference in everyday life, no one person in control of everything (and that is by design), and a very different history (The Vietnamese Communists fought for independence, and Ho even asked the US for support before going to the Soviets. The CCP, on the other hand fought for control of what was at that stage an already independent country "liberated" by the KMT). Saying China and Vietnam are the same is like saying Gorbachev and Stalin were the same. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam continued to liberalise and peacefully transition to a democracy over the next 2-3 decades. The CCP, though, would let the country burn to the ground before they released their grip on power.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    What do you mean far less censorship? The censorship of Vietnamese media in Vietnam is just as strong as Chinese media in China. "Liberal" anglophone media is a deliberate government tactic to draw in investment - see the English versions of state media and compare them to the Vietnamese editions. Power is just as concentrated in Vietnam as in China. There are massive factions that are aligned with Xi and that lead to the current policy. When those factions align behind Phu Trong we identify those factions as being decisive. In reality the two are very similar. The CCP was founded almost at the same time as the KMT. They had almost identical founding objectives. Yes the KMT did most of the work early on but the CCP still fought the Japanese and they were not founded to overthrow the KMT. I'm not saying that Stalin and Gorbachev are the same. I'm saying that Khrushchev and a Gorbachev which would have been successful would be similar.