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Sounds like the biggest mistake he made was lashing out at a likely in-over-their-head manager. We are only getting one side, but sounds like he was trying to d

Sounds like the biggest mistake he made was lashing out at a likely in-over-their-head manager. We are only getting one side, but sounds like he was trying to do the right things to either overcome the challenges and/or create boundaries, but he may have been hired to be a sacrificial lamb. In my consulting times, I was brought into something a lot like this for the purpose of being fired so that the CTO could save their job. It can be very challenging to get a read on an employer / client who is intent on misleading you. It can also sometimes be a manager who needs to save their own job who may not be deliberately lying so much as simply in a fight / flight situation themselves.

throwntoday 5y ago
The funny thing is that Amazon really stresses their leadership principles and I recall one of them being "have a backbone", basically to disagree with anyone if you know you're right. I can see how he snapped over his moron manager bringing gender into things.
- hackernews777 5y ago
  The other half of that is Disagree and Commit. (https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles) The concept being that supposedly everyone is free to make their best case for a course of action, but once a decision has been made everyone is expected to fully commit to the decision.
- rkk3 5y ago
  >> I gave my manager a piece of my mind. She brought gender into the equation and said that I couldn’t speak to a girl like that > I can see how he snapped over his moron manager bringing gender into things. he "snapped", then they "brought up gender". Since it sounds like he was fired for cause he probably called them a B!#$^ or C@!$, but who knows.
  - thebruce87m 5y ago
    I don’t use those words at work or otherwise, but aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times?
    - fumer 5y ago
      > I don’t use those words at work or otherwise, but aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times? If a new hire presents himself as a threat to your career and/or your job, you're already in hot water because your team is spiraling out of control, and you get called out in your attempt to throw someone under the bus... Would you double-down with your self-preservation shtick, or would you have a sudden change of heart regarding taking the high road and just listen to criticism as a path to growth? Oh, you'd be desperately holding onto whatever opportunity might present itself to save your behind, even if that involves turning yourself into a inclusion champion at the expense of a sacrificial lamb. After all, who is going to fire a manager who is an inclusion spokesperson and has already been subjected first-hand to gender abuse within the company?
    - rkk3 5y ago
      > aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times? Assuming you aren't trolling, No they aren't gender neutral, they have significantly different implications based on who you say it to just like racially pejorative terms.
      - thebruce87m 5y ago
        Not trolling at all. Cunt is fairly common in the UK for males talking to male friends. Bitch is less common in the UK, but I used to hear it all the time on US centric gaming chat which was primarily males talking to males. Edit: can’t believe my root comment got downvotes for asking a genuine question.
        rkk3 5y ago
        Ah cultural differences, didn't occur to me. Both terms are significantly more offensive in the US when applied to women.
cvhashim 5y ago
You see the sacrificial lamb thing with contractors/consultants because they won’t sue for being put in a bad situation and fired afterwards but not sure if it’s too common with Full time engineers. Amazon is just a toxic workplace and I recommend all my fellow engineers avoid that place like the plague. I’ve heard too many horror stories like OPs.
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  Early on in my career, about year three or so like this guy, I got hired into a similar situation - gig wasn't what the company said. The key was to stay calm and set boundaries at every step. If you let it get emotional, it creates an excuse for management to turn you into the scapegoat. If you instead act like the consummate team player, over communicate, etc, it become hard for anyone to actually fault you. It might be miserable for a while, but the key becomes to start building allies so that you can escape the situation as soon as possible either to a new team or a new gig. Or hope that the team goes through a shakeup soon enough and because you did your thing you are a survivor.
  - sumthinprofound 5y ago
    > stay calm and set boundaries at every step absolutely. and document all conversations. Staying calm is an acquired skill that I've tried to mentor in to my hires, and it is even more important to maintain if you are being set up to fail instead of supported to succeed.

throwntoday 5y ago

The funny thing is that Amazon really stresses their leadership principles and I recall one of them being "have a backbone", basically to disagree with anyone if you know you're right. I can see how he snapped over his moron manager bringing gender into things.

hackernews777 5y ago
The other half of that is Disagree and Commit. (https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles) The concept being that supposedly everyone is free to make their best case for a course of action, but once a decision has been made everyone is expected to fully commit to the decision.
rkk3 5y ago
>> I gave my manager a piece of my mind. She brought gender into the equation and said that I couldn’t speak to a girl like that > I can see how he snapped over his moron manager bringing gender into things. he "snapped", then they "brought up gender". Since it sounds like he was fired for cause he probably called them a B!#$^ or C@!$, but who knows.
- thebruce87m 5y ago
  I don’t use those words at work or otherwise, but aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times?
  - fumer 5y ago
    > I don’t use those words at work or otherwise, but aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times? If a new hire presents himself as a threat to your career and/or your job, you're already in hot water because your team is spiraling out of control, and you get called out in your attempt to throw someone under the bus... Would you double-down with your self-preservation shtick, or would you have a sudden change of heart regarding taking the high road and just listen to criticism as a path to growth? Oh, you'd be desperately holding onto whatever opportunity might present itself to save your behind, even if that involves turning yourself into a inclusion champion at the expense of a sacrificial lamb. After all, who is going to fire a manager who is an inclusion spokesperson and has already been subjected first-hand to gender abuse within the company?
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times? Assuming you aren't trolling, No they aren't gender neutral, they have significantly different implications based on who you say it to just like racially pejorative terms.
    - thebruce87m 5y ago
      Not trolling at all. Cunt is fairly common in the UK for males talking to male friends. Bitch is less common in the UK, but I used to hear it all the time on US centric gaming chat which was primarily males talking to males. Edit: can’t believe my root comment got downvotes for asking a genuine question.
      - rkk3 5y ago
        Ah cultural differences, didn't occur to me. Both terms are significantly more offensive in the US when applied to women.

cvhashim 5y ago

You see the sacrificial lamb thing with contractors/consultants because they won’t sue for being put in a bad situation and fired afterwards but not sure if it’s too common with Full time engineers. Amazon is just a toxic workplace and I recommend all my fellow engineers avoid that place like the plague. I’ve heard too many horror stories like OPs.

poulsbohemian 5y ago
Early on in my career, about year three or so like this guy, I got hired into a similar situation - gig wasn't what the company said. The key was to stay calm and set boundaries at every step. If you let it get emotional, it creates an excuse for management to turn you into the scapegoat. If you instead act like the consummate team player, over communicate, etc, it become hard for anyone to actually fault you. It might be miserable for a while, but the key becomes to start building allies so that you can escape the situation as soon as possible either to a new team or a new gig. Or hope that the team goes through a shakeup soon enough and because you did your thing you are a survivor.
- sumthinprofound 5y ago
  > stay calm and set boundaries at every step absolutely. and document all conversations. Staying calm is an acquired skill that I've tried to mentor in to my hires, and it is even more important to maintain if you are being set up to fail instead of supported to succeed.