6 ms·

The pedaling aspect is also not really what matters, because you can in principle reduce the load factor so much that the pedals also just become a fancy thrott

The pedaling aspect is also not really what matters, because you can in principle reduce the load factor so much that the pedals also just become a fancy throttle, no?

lukevi 5y ago
I've found this to be correct on most every e-bike I have rented. You can "feather pedal", just spinning the cranks without engaging any energy, and the e-bike will send power to "assist".
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I'll try that and see what my top speed is.
jacquesm 5y ago
No, there is a direct relationship between the power exerted and the power the motor will add. There is a nifty torque sensor built into the cranks.
- phreeza 5y ago
  What I am saying you could hack the power to torque factor to be so high you don't really have to exert very much force at all.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself which you can only reset at the dealership. You can do that three times and then it's permanent. The penalties for having such a hack detected on your bike - assuming you would get away with it - is confiscation. I would strongly advise against such tricks. You can see how much work just changing out the battery was. There are plenty of parties selling limiter removers or speed boxes but they're all illegal and you are uninsured when using such a device. My bike is perfectly legal to ride.
    - 0des 5y ago
      > You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself This does not match reality at all. E-bikes are some of the most modify-able and hackable devices out there. Most of the parts are interchangeable, and a decent portion of these bikes are assembled piece by piece. I can change the acceleration profile of mine at will, via bluetooth. Amperage limits, battery codes, everything. I have used many devices and parts and kits, and have never even once seen DRM present.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Oh, sure, I'm making it all up. I just spent two months picking apart the Bosch e-bike system, I think by now I know what I'm talking about but feel free to prove me wrong and show me how you're able to get your battery to talk to a Bosch controller without using a Bosch BMS. Hint: you won't be able to, the key is embedded in an NXP processor that has it's fuses blown (both sides, controller and battery) and any kind of hacking you want to do will have to be at the sensor level and even there I would advise you to use an older version of the firmware because the newer ones are very good at detecting such hacks.
        llampx 5y ago
        I think you both can be correct. The more expensive e-bikes as sold in the EU are DRM'd to the hilt, whereas cheaper bikes sold elsewhere or assembled from kits won't have any restrictions. On reddit/r/ebikes you can see some crazy builds that would get you a hefty fine in most of Europe.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        I did write 'these bikes', as in Bosch based e-bikes, specifically s-pedelecs. It is pretty obvious I'm only talking about this kind of bike, not about 'all bikes out there including those in other countries and cobbled together from parts'.
        5y ago
- nybble41 5y ago
  You're describing one particular kind of (high-end) e-bike. Many perfectly legal, unmodified e-bikes do not have torque sensors. If the bike has a cadence sensor, like mine does, then it doesn't care about how much torque you're applying to the pedals. All it cares about is how fast they're turning. And at the higher speeds (around the 20 MPH limit) the gearing and small wheel sizes on mine are such that one would need to pedal very fast to exert any significant pressure on the pedals. A much lower pedaling rate with no pressure will still maintain the top speed on level ground. There is no significant difference between "pedal assist" and a hand-operated throttle. It would be really nice if the politicians would recognize this and remove the meaningless class 1 / class 2 distinction based purely on the location of the throttle. (Though to be fair there are many more sensible places which already treat them the same.)
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Those are more than likely 25 Kph limited bikes, s-pedelecs are a different class altogether.

The pedaling aspect is also not really what matters, because you can in principle reduce the load factor so much that the pedals also just become a fancy throttle, no?

lukevi 5y ago

I've found this to be correct on most every e-bike I have rented. You can "feather pedal", just spinning the cranks without engaging any energy, and the e-bike will send power to "assist".

jacquesm 5y ago
I'll try that and see what my top speed is.

jacquesm 5y ago

No, there is a direct relationship between the power exerted and the power the motor will add. There is a nifty torque sensor built into the cranks.

phreeza 5y ago
What I am saying you could hack the power to torque factor to be so high you don't really have to exert very much force at all.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself which you can only reset at the dealership. You can do that three times and then it's permanent. The penalties for having such a hack detected on your bike - assuming you would get away with it - is confiscation. I would strongly advise against such tricks. You can see how much work just changing out the battery was. There are plenty of parties selling limiter removers or speed boxes but they're all illegal and you are uninsured when using such a device. My bike is perfectly legal to ride.
  - 0des 5y ago
    > You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself This does not match reality at all. E-bikes are some of the most modify-able and hackable devices out there. Most of the parts are interchangeable, and a decent portion of these bikes are assembled piece by piece. I can change the acceleration profile of mine at will, via bluetooth. Amperage limits, battery codes, everything. I have used many devices and parts and kits, and have never even once seen DRM present.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Oh, sure, I'm making it all up. I just spent two months picking apart the Bosch e-bike system, I think by now I know what I'm talking about but feel free to prove me wrong and show me how you're able to get your battery to talk to a Bosch controller without using a Bosch BMS. Hint: you won't be able to, the key is embedded in an NXP processor that has it's fuses blown (both sides, controller and battery) and any kind of hacking you want to do will have to be at the sensor level and even there I would advise you to use an older version of the firmware because the newer ones are very good at detecting such hacks.
      - llampx 5y ago
        I think you both can be correct. The more expensive e-bikes as sold in the EU are DRM'd to the hilt, whereas cheaper bikes sold elsewhere or assembled from kits won't have any restrictions. On reddit/r/ebikes you can see some crazy builds that would get you a hefty fine in most of Europe.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        I did write 'these bikes', as in Bosch based e-bikes, specifically s-pedelecs. It is pretty obvious I'm only talking about this kind of bike, not about 'all bikes out there including those in other countries and cobbled together from parts'.
        5y ago
nybble41 5y ago
You're describing one particular kind of (high-end) e-bike. Many perfectly legal, unmodified e-bikes do not have torque sensors. If the bike has a cadence sensor, like mine does, then it doesn't care about how much torque you're applying to the pedals. All it cares about is how fast they're turning. And at the higher speeds (around the 20 MPH limit) the gearing and small wheel sizes on mine are such that one would need to pedal very fast to exert any significant pressure on the pedals. A much lower pedaling rate with no pressure will still maintain the top speed on level ground. There is no significant difference between "pedal assist" and a hand-operated throttle. It would be really nice if the politicians would recognize this and remove the meaningless class 1 / class 2 distinction based purely on the location of the throttle. (Though to be fair there are many more sensible places which already treat them the same.)
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Those are more than likely 25 Kph limited bikes, s-pedelecs are a different class altogether.