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I'm not sure what Apple have to do with it, and in any event "working with" is not a fair description. Apple, like many other companies are a multi-national ma

I'm not sure what Apple have to do with it, and in any event "working with" is not a fair description. Apple, like many other companies are a multi-national manufacturer. In that situation you have to do two things: 1. You have to manufacture your products in volume somewhere 2. You have to sell your products in volume somewhere Try as you might, it is simply not feasible to eradicate China from either 1 or 2. For the manufacturing, even if you were to manage to stop direct manufacturing in China, it is largely impossible to stop indirect manufacturing in China, there will always be all sorts of OEM components in your supply chain that are made in whole or in part China. For the sales, well you could ignore the Chinese market. But that is ignoring 1.4 billion people, 18% of the world's population. Plus countless business customers on top of that. As a large multi-national company, can you really do that ? Especially if you operate in the tech sector ? As for how Apple (or any other Western company) operates in China, you might well find they have little choice under domestic legislation. Just because they are a US (or other) company, doesn't mean they can ignore local laws. I'm not defending China here, I'm just saying put yourself in Apple (or any other multinational) shoes for a second and think about it objectively.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Objectively apathy is destructive. Apple may not be willing to turn on a dime, but they can start steering their manufacturing and market choices elsewhere. Obviously leaving a rich and growing market will hurt. So what path causes the least harm?
- traceroute66 5y ago
  How about you actually read what I took the time to write ? To repeat myself in different words: 1. Manufacturing: Sure, Tim Cook *could* declare tomorrow that Apple will manufacture all devices in the US (or Europe or wherever). But *AND IT IS A BIG BUT* would that be the truth ? As I quite clearly said above. It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to eradicate all indirect Chinese manufacturing. You cannot possibly declare that 100% of components in an iPhone (or whatever) are not made in whole or in part China. There will always be some semiconductor, some resistor ... something ! 2. "Steer their market choices elsewhere". As I said China is 18% of the world's population (plus innumerable business customers). Is it really a sensible commercial decision to turn your back on such an enormous market ? And what about the Chinese who live, work and travel abroad ? Are you going to ban them from buying Apple devices internationally too ?
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    Conflict free sourcing is certainly a problem with Cobalt and diamonds. Yet I don't hear many voices demanding perfectly audited supply chains overnight. Rather, people are starting to expect more from producers whose worth is in the trillions. > Is it really a sensible commercial decision to turn your back on such an enormous market ? Business and profit don't exist in a vacuum. There are externalities, context, and humans in control. So it's entirely sensible to call out, boycott, or even legally regulate companies with an outsized impact (even indirectly) supporting oppressive regimes.

paulryanrogers 5y ago

Objectively apathy is destructive. Apple may not be willing to turn on a dime, but they can start steering their manufacturing and market choices elsewhere. Obviously leaving a rich and growing market will hurt. So what path causes the least harm?

traceroute66 5y ago
How about you actually read what I took the time to write ? To repeat myself in different words: 1. Manufacturing: Sure, Tim Cook *could* declare tomorrow that Apple will manufacture all devices in the US (or Europe or wherever). But *AND IT IS A BIG BUT* would that be the truth ? As I quite clearly said above. It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to eradicate all indirect Chinese manufacturing. You cannot possibly declare that 100% of components in an iPhone (or whatever) are not made in whole or in part China. There will always be some semiconductor, some resistor ... something ! 2. "Steer their market choices elsewhere". As I said China is 18% of the world's population (plus innumerable business customers). Is it really a sensible commercial decision to turn your back on such an enormous market ? And what about the Chinese who live, work and travel abroad ? Are you going to ban them from buying Apple devices internationally too ?
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Conflict free sourcing is certainly a problem with Cobalt and diamonds. Yet I don't hear many voices demanding perfectly audited supply chains overnight. Rather, people are starting to expect more from producers whose worth is in the trillions. > Is it really a sensible commercial decision to turn your back on such an enormous market ? Business and profit don't exist in a vacuum. There are externalities, context, and humans in control. So it's entirely sensible to call out, boycott, or even legally regulate companies with an outsized impact (even indirectly) supporting oppressive regimes.