4 ms·

Are there any comparable non-Apple laptops which are well supported by Linux? I'd hate to pay the Apple tax, only to run Linux on the bare metal. Plus, I'm assu

Are there any comparable non-Apple laptops which are well supported by Linux? I'd hate to pay the Apple tax, only to run Linux on the bare metal. Plus, I'm assuming "Apple care" goes out the window once you wipe out MacOS?

nacs 5y ago
Apple Care covers hardware issues so installing Linux shouldn't void that unless you physically open up the laptop to do some weird thing.
marcan_42 5y ago
I'm not aware of any machines with comparable performance/efficiency from any other vendor. Apple officially supports running your own kernels on these machines. This isn't a jailbreak, it's an official feature of the hardware and firmware design that Apple added, and which their EULA allows you to use in this way. These machines are also not brickable, you can always do a DFU restore from macOS or (soon; Monterey needs some stuff I already figured out but haven't implemented yet, but it works for older versions on the M1s) Linux using idevicerestore, no matter how much you wipe or screw up. (That said, I wouldn't recommend wiping macOS at this stage; we expect most users to have a dual-boot setup.)
pqb 5y ago
From my experience - a notable percent of all Dell laptops (especially Precision and Latitude series) has a decent Linux support. I have never been an owner of laptop from System76 or any other brand that is targeting Linux users. However, I am really interested in getting a Framework Laptop [0] for myself, which looks nice and I have already read good opinions about it. [0]: https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/
caymanjim 5y ago
I used to rant about paying so much extra for Apple hardware and call it the "Apple tax" too, but the truth is, no one else makes good laptops. You're paying for more than simply the brand. I spent a fortune on a Lenovo X1 Extreme, and the thing bricked itself three times in 14 months, the last of which was outside the warranty window, and it's now basically impossible to get repaired (I couldn't even get anyone to look at it, and Lenovo is no help at all). Even if it weren't bricked, the shitty plastic case is already getting loose (the display hinge is loose/wobbly and squeaky); the speakers sound terrible; it's loud; it gets unbearably hot. Dell laptops are pretty good with Linux, but the build quality is similarly poor. Linux-first laptops like System 76's are clunky and inferior. It's really hard to beat MacBooks on a hardware level. I'd love to run Linux on one.
- qudat 5y ago
  This has been my fear as well when looking at other laptops. In terms of hardware and build quality, apple is crushing it with m1 mpb. However, I just received my framework laptop and am totally excited by it. The build quality is pretty good compared to my 2019 15” intel mbp. It feels like a hunk of metal, similar to mbp. I love the size, the monitor is great, keyboard is much better, and all the parts are replaceable. Running arch with zero issues so far (although i havent tried bluetooth or fingerprint reader yet). The battery doesnt seem great (8hr real use) and the speakers are not even close to my mbp. Other than those two items (both of which are fixable with battery pack + headphones) I find the offerings very similar.
  - caymanjim 5y ago
    > The battery doesnt seem great (8hr real use) Eight hours of real use is fantastic. I've never gotten more than eight hours out of a MBP while doing actual work; it's usually more like 4-5 hours, if I'd doing things like running Docker and frequently doing builds and running tests. Laptop manufacturers stretch their battery life claims like crazy. My MBP will last 12 hours if all I'm doing is using a terminal to SSH somewhere and doing very light web browsing, but if I'm doing dev work, forget it.
boldlybold 5y ago
After running ubuntu on a Dell XPS 15 with varying degrees of success the last four years, I placed an order for a Framework laptop that will be shipping this month. I don't expect the build quality to match that of apple, or even dell, but I've read linux support is good, and will only get better with more dedicated people on the platform.
- nullwarp 5y ago
  My Framework is amazing and probably one of my favorite laptops in quite some time. I think the build quality is great all things considered
- qudat 5y ago
  I just received mine while using a 2019 15” intel mbp. Honestly I was shocked at how great the framework is. The hype is real. if mbp is a 10: monitor 9 trackpad 8 keyboard 15 case 9 ports 20 battery 6 speakers 5 I an shocked by how well the trackpad works. I havent messed with gestures yet but the precision seems on par to me. Linux support is first class. Im very happy with my decision. M1 mbp is definitely better overall but I would choose this laptop over it in a heartbeat.
sahaskatta 5y ago
Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon with Linux
fsflover 5y ago
Not exactly comparable and not ARM, but https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14. Another one is ARM, but very under-powered: https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/.
michelledepeil 5y ago
It's a different aesthetic, but t- and p-series thinkpads are well supported by various linux distros and the experience is considerably smoother (and with better battery life) than 5-10 years ago.

nacs 5y ago

Apple Care covers hardware issues so installing Linux shouldn't void that unless you physically open up the laptop to do some weird thing.

marcan_42 5y ago

I'm not aware of any machines with comparable performance/efficiency from any other vendor. Apple officially supports running your own kernels on these machines. This isn't a jailbreak, it's an official feature of the hardware and firmware design that Apple added, and which their EULA allows you to use in this way. These machines are also not brickable, you can always do a DFU restore from macOS or (soon; Monterey needs some stuff I already figured out but haven't implemented yet, but it works for older versions on the M1s) Linux using idevicerestore, no matter how much you wipe or screw up. (That said, I wouldn't recommend wiping macOS at this stage; we expect most users to have a dual-boot setup.)

pqb 5y ago

From my experience - a notable percent of all Dell laptops (especially Precision and Latitude series) has a decent Linux support. I have never been an owner of laptop from System76 or any other brand that is targeting Linux users. However, I am really interested in getting a Framework Laptop [0] for myself, which looks nice and I have already read good opinions about it. [0]: https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/

caymanjim 5y ago

I used to rant about paying so much extra for Apple hardware and call it the "Apple tax" too, but the truth is, no one else makes good laptops. You're paying for more than simply the brand. I spent a fortune on a Lenovo X1 Extreme, and the thing bricked itself three times in 14 months, the last of which was outside the warranty window, and it's now basically impossible to get repaired (I couldn't even get anyone to look at it, and Lenovo is no help at all). Even if it weren't bricked, the shitty plastic case is already getting loose (the display hinge is loose/wobbly and squeaky); the speakers sound terrible; it's loud; it gets unbearably hot. Dell laptops are pretty good with Linux, but the build quality is similarly poor. Linux-first laptops like System 76's are clunky and inferior. It's really hard to beat MacBooks on a hardware level. I'd love to run Linux on one.

qudat 5y ago
This has been my fear as well when looking at other laptops. In terms of hardware and build quality, apple is crushing it with m1 mpb. However, I just received my framework laptop and am totally excited by it. The build quality is pretty good compared to my 2019 15” intel mbp. It feels like a hunk of metal, similar to mbp. I love the size, the monitor is great, keyboard is much better, and all the parts are replaceable. Running arch with zero issues so far (although i havent tried bluetooth or fingerprint reader yet). The battery doesnt seem great (8hr real use) and the speakers are not even close to my mbp. Other than those two items (both of which are fixable with battery pack + headphones) I find the offerings very similar.
- caymanjim 5y ago
  > The battery doesnt seem great (8hr real use) Eight hours of real use is fantastic. I've never gotten more than eight hours out of a MBP while doing actual work; it's usually more like 4-5 hours, if I'd doing things like running Docker and frequently doing builds and running tests. Laptop manufacturers stretch their battery life claims like crazy. My MBP will last 12 hours if all I'm doing is using a terminal to SSH somewhere and doing very light web browsing, but if I'm doing dev work, forget it.

boldlybold 5y ago

After running ubuntu on a Dell XPS 15 with varying degrees of success the last four years, I placed an order for a Framework laptop that will be shipping this month. I don't expect the build quality to match that of apple, or even dell, but I've read linux support is good, and will only get better with more dedicated people on the platform.

nullwarp 5y ago
My Framework is amazing and probably one of my favorite laptops in quite some time. I think the build quality is great all things considered
qudat 5y ago
I just received mine while using a 2019 15” intel mbp. Honestly I was shocked at how great the framework is. The hype is real. if mbp is a 10: monitor 9 trackpad 8 keyboard 15 case 9 ports 20 battery 6 speakers 5 I an shocked by how well the trackpad works. I havent messed with gestures yet but the precision seems on par to me. Linux support is first class. Im very happy with my decision. M1 mbp is definitely better overall but I would choose this laptop over it in a heartbeat.

sahaskatta 5y ago

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon with Linux

fsflover 5y ago

Not exactly comparable and not ARM, but https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14. Another one is ARM, but very under-powered: https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/.

michelledepeil 5y ago

It's a different aesthetic, but t- and p-series thinkpads are well supported by various linux distros and the experience is considerably smoother (and with better battery life) than 5-10 years ago.