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I wonder why anyone would want to have a popular project in the first place. Do you think you'll get famous? Rich? Have higher status? Well, perhaps you will

by brabel 5y ago

I wonder why anyone would want to have a popular project in the first place. Do you think you'll get famous? Rich? Have higher status? Well, perhaps you will get some status in a few niche circles, like when applying for conference talks perhaps?! But other than that, all you'll get is a load of entitled users complaining about bugs, usually filling low quality bug reports, and very few actual meaningful contributions. Most people are just like you and want THEIR PROJECT to be popular, not to contribute almost anonymously to some other random guy's popular project. Those who are more likely to contribute are usually junior devs trying to learn new skills, so expect their contributions to require lots of reviews and help from you.

susam 5y ago
> But other than that, all you'll get is a load of entitled users complaining about bugs, usually filling low quality bug reports, and very few actual meaningful contributions. I agree that entitled users can be a real problem. I have had my share of dealing with entitled and impolite users complaining about "issues" that eventually turn out to be something that is already easily addressed by the README. Interacting with such users can indeed be disappointing. However, except for the occasional discourteous user, most users of my tiny projects have been quite supportive. Most of them are polite while submitting bug reports. Some even leave comments to express their appreciation for the project![1] So it's not all bad! > Most people are just like you and want THEIR PROJECT to be popular, not to contribute almost anonymously to some other random guy's popular project. Wanting one's own project to be popular and contributing to other projects need not be mutually exclusive. Many people write their own projects as well as contribute to other projects. For example, I got into open source first by contributing[2][3] to other projects before I began publishing my own projects. [1] https://github.com/susam/uncap/issues/9 https://github.com/susam/uncap/issues/9 [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-559 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-559 [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-601 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-601
- brabel 5y ago
  > Many people write their own projects as well as contribute to other projects Yeah, I know, I do the same thing myself! The question still remains: why would you want to have a popular project? It makes no sense to desire that... Desiring that a project exists that solves a problem well... that yes, we should all desire that, but who created it doesn't really matter... if I create a project these days, it's to solve a problem I really can't find anything else to solve, not because I want to write something popular... TBH if it becomes popular, I might see that as a problem rather than a good thing given what comes with it: feature requests, bug reports, PRs that you need to spend time on while sometimes just not wanting to accept the change, self-awareness that you can no longer just change stuff at will if you want it... I have a few slightly popular projects, but the ones I like the most are the obscure ones I use by myself :)
- hotfixguru 5y ago
  I agree with you. Most my packages are around ~100 stars, and I'm met with a lot of respect and appreciation.[1][2] My library for Correlation-IDs in Django[3] got implemented by AWX, which also was a nice experience![4] Maybe it is the Django/FastAPI community, but "you'll get a load of entitled users" is straight up not true in my experience. [1] https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/24 https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/24 [2] https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/39 https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/39 [3] https://github.com/snok/django-guid https://github.com/snok/django-guid [4] https://github.com/ansible/awx/pull/9332 https://github.com/ansible/awx/pull/9332 (Bonus Correlation-ID package for Starlette/FastAPI: https://github.com/snok/asgi-correlation-id https://github.com/snok/asgi-correlation-id )
notamy 5y ago
> I wonder why anyone would want to have a popular project in the first place. Personally, I just like the feeling of knowing that I've made something that others like and find valuable.
rikroots 5y ago
My main project has gathered some stars (low hundreds) and a few followers, the occasional fork, etc. I think the project is both important and useful ... but at the same time I'm also very grateful that there seems to be such a lack of interest in it* Why? Well I've been following my competitors' projects (other 2D canvas libraries) for a few years now. Most of these projects are being maintained by just one or two people. Their dedication to maintaining and improving these libraries - which they often took over from the original creators - is wonderful to see. But the amount of crap the maintainers of the more popular libraries have to put up with is astonishing. People who demand immediate fixes for obscure bugs. People not willing to produce even a minimal code example to help the maintainers understand and fix the issue. People - developers! - who are too lazy to do their research and expect the maintainers to build their products for them. So, yes. If that stress is the price to pay for having a popular project on GitHub ... I think I'll stay hidden in my little corner of the internets! *A couple of issues raised, and no contributions, over past 3 years. On the bright side I can release updates without having to worry about backwards compatibility.
sheetjs 5y ago
Maybe a story from a maintainer would help. To contextualize, the main SheetJS open source project https://github.com/SheetJS/sheetjs https://github.com/SheetJS/sheetjs has over 28K stars. tl;dr: the project involves "crowdsourced research" which benefits from popularity. The main social goal with the project is data preservation and integrity. Large-scale economic and political decisions are made from data and analyses in spreadsheets. For example, last year in the UK, COVID cases were underreported thanks to Excel minutiae https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988 Due to various corporate stratagems, the older data representations were intentionally obfuscated. To support Excel, many developers poked around at Excel files and guessed at the structures. In this environment, the biggest challenge is finding worksheets with random corner cases. These types of files are not easy to create and fuzzing has limited effectiveness. This is where open source and popularity come into play. The open source and JS nature of the project helps reduce testing friction (https://oss.sheetjs.com/ https://oss.sheetjs.com/ runs in the web browser, no need to install anything) and encourage bug reports with test cases. There will always be "entitled users" and "low quality bug reports" but that comes with the territory. There are also meaningful issues and code contributions. Efforts at trying to prevent the low quality contributions also discourage higher quality contributions.
austincheney 5y ago
I used to use a popular project to get employment and it worked very well.
neura 5y ago
> I wonder why anyone would want to have a popular project in the first place. It's literally the second item in the ToC of the article. > Why Bother? Popular Projects = More Contributors = Better Project The author does go on to talk about how it becomes a challenge, dealing with people that are the opposite of helpful, as you also mention many people are, but the point still stands. The more popular the project, the more contributions, even if many are in the form of bugs/complaints, those are still useful. If the ratio of complaints to actual code contributions is even remotely consistent, the more complaints, the more actual code contributions. :shrug: To each their own, but at least read the article before criticizing.

by brabel 5y ago

susam 5y ago

> But other than that, all you'll get is a load of entitled users complaining about bugs, usually filling low quality bug reports, and very few actual meaningful contributions. I agree that entitled users can be a real problem. I have had my share of dealing with entitled and impolite users complaining about "issues" that eventually turn out to be something that is already easily addressed by the README. Interacting with such users can indeed be disappointing. However, except for the occasional discourteous user, most users of my tiny projects have been quite supportive. Most of them are polite while submitting bug reports. Some even leave comments to express their appreciation for the project![1] So it's not all bad! > Most people are just like you and want THEIR PROJECT to be popular, not to contribute almost anonymously to some other random guy's popular project. Wanting one's own project to be popular and contributing to other projects need not be mutually exclusive. Many people write their own projects as well as contribute to other projects. For example, I got into open source first by contributing[2][3] to other projects before I began publishing my own projects. [1] https://github.com/susam/uncap/issues/9 https://github.com/susam/uncap/issues/9 [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-559 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-559 [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-601 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NUTCH-601

brabel 5y ago
> Many people write their own projects as well as contribute to other projects Yeah, I know, I do the same thing myself! The question still remains: why would you want to have a popular project? It makes no sense to desire that... Desiring that a project exists that solves a problem well... that yes, we should all desire that, but who created it doesn't really matter... if I create a project these days, it's to solve a problem I really can't find anything else to solve, not because I want to write something popular... TBH if it becomes popular, I might see that as a problem rather than a good thing given what comes with it: feature requests, bug reports, PRs that you need to spend time on while sometimes just not wanting to accept the change, self-awareness that you can no longer just change stuff at will if you want it... I have a few slightly popular projects, but the ones I like the most are the obscure ones I use by myself :)
hotfixguru 5y ago
I agree with you. Most my packages are around ~100 stars, and I'm met with a lot of respect and appreciation.[1][2] My library for Correlation-IDs in Django[3] got implemented by AWX, which also was a nice experience![4] Maybe it is the Django/FastAPI community, but "you'll get a load of entitled users" is straight up not true in my experience. [1] https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/24 https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/24 [2] https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/39 https://github.com/Intility/fastapi-azure-auth/issues/39 [3] https://github.com/snok/django-guid https://github.com/snok/django-guid [4] https://github.com/ansible/awx/pull/9332 https://github.com/ansible/awx/pull/9332 (Bonus Correlation-ID package for Starlette/FastAPI: https://github.com/snok/asgi-correlation-id https://github.com/snok/asgi-correlation-id )

notamy 5y ago

> I wonder why anyone would want to have a popular project in the first place. Personally, I just like the feeling of knowing that I've made something that others like and find valuable.

rikroots 5y ago

My main project has gathered some stars (low hundreds) and a few followers, the occasional fork, etc. I think the project is both important and useful ... but at the same time I'm also very grateful that there seems to be such a lack of interest in it* Why? Well I've been following my competitors' projects (other 2D canvas libraries) for a few years now. Most of these projects are being maintained by just one or two people. Their dedication to maintaining and improving these libraries - which they often took over from the original creators - is wonderful to see. But the amount of crap the maintainers of the more popular libraries have to put up with is astonishing. People who demand immediate fixes for obscure bugs. People not willing to produce even a minimal code example to help the maintainers understand and fix the issue. People - developers! - who are too lazy to do their research and expect the maintainers to build their products for them. So, yes. If that stress is the price to pay for having a popular project on GitHub ... I think I'll stay hidden in my little corner of the internets! *A couple of issues raised, and no contributions, over past 3 years. On the bright side I can release updates without having to worry about backwards compatibility.

sheetjs 5y ago

Maybe a story from a maintainer would help. To contextualize, the main SheetJS open source project https://github.com/SheetJS/sheetjs https://github.com/SheetJS/sheetjs has over 28K stars. tl;dr: the project involves "crowdsourced research" which benefits from popularity. The main social goal with the project is data preservation and integrity. Large-scale economic and political decisions are made from data and analyses in spreadsheets. For example, last year in the UK, COVID cases were underreported thanks to Excel minutiae https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988 Due to various corporate stratagems, the older data representations were intentionally obfuscated. To support Excel, many developers poked around at Excel files and guessed at the structures. In this environment, the biggest challenge is finding worksheets with random corner cases. These types of files are not easy to create and fuzzing has limited effectiveness. This is where open source and popularity come into play. The open source and JS nature of the project helps reduce testing friction (https://oss.sheetjs.com/ https://oss.sheetjs.com/ runs in the web browser, no need to install anything) and encourage bug reports with test cases. There will always be "entitled users" and "low quality bug reports" but that comes with the territory. There are also meaningful issues and code contributions. Efforts at trying to prevent the low quality contributions also discourage higher quality contributions.

austincheney 5y ago

I used to use a popular project to get employment and it worked very well.

neura 5y ago

> I wonder why anyone would want to have a popular project in the first place. It's literally the second item in the ToC of the article. > Why Bother? Popular Projects = More Contributors = Better Project The author does go on to talk about how it becomes a challenge, dealing with people that are the opposite of helpful, as you also mention many people are, but the point still stands. The more popular the project, the more contributions, even if many are in the form of bugs/complaints, those are still useful. If the ratio of complaints to actual code contributions is even remotely consistent, the more complaints, the more actual code contributions. :shrug: To each their own, but at least read the article before criticizing.