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I'm a longtime Android user, but I'm increasingly feeling a certain level of existential doubt about my choice. It's basically a choice between using a more ope

I'm a longtime Android user, but I'm increasingly feeling a certain level of existential doubt about my choice. It's basically a choice between using a more open system (which I like) developed by the world's biggest data collection and targeted advertising company, or using a closed and private system (no third party apps, an anti open source attitude) which commits me to giving significant money to a to a company I think is anti-competitive and far too focused on control. Or you go down the Android-without-Google route, which seems to be very impractical for even basic things like banking apps. I honestly don't know what my next phone will be. But I've got to have one to participate in society.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago
I can tell you that it's a night and day difference switching to an OS that isn't actively trying to manipulate you. Apple isn't the good guys by any means, but once you've bought their expensive phone, you've largely already done what they want.
- Copernicron 5y ago
  That may have been true at one point but not anymore. My iPhone - which I'm typing this on - is constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music or some other damn thing I don't want. The way I see it, Apple is trying to manipulate me as much as Google is and for the exact same reason: money. They want to make more money off me and if that means advertising to me in the settings menu then that's what they'll do.
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    > constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music "constantly" seems like a strech, sure you need a icloud account for the app store to work, but thats it. i don't recall having been nagged for anything more than once by apple. whatsapp on the other hand ...
    - Copernicron 5y ago
      I have a seemingly permanent notification for the settings app to, "finish setting up your iPhone." All I have to do is punch in my credit card number and sign up for Apple Pay. I don't want that.
      - hansel_der 5y ago
        now that you mention it, i remember the "finish setup..." nag. iirc it went away after i started to setup whatever and then cancel/abandon the setup thingy
  - taylodl 5y ago
    > My iPhone - which I'm typing this on - is constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music That's interesting. I don't have any of these services (well, there is a free tier of iCloud you get by default) and I'm not pestered for anything. What is your phone doing to constantly try to get you to sign up for these services?
    - Copernicron 5y ago
      I'm just trying to use my phone. Apple Music wants me to subscribe to their streaming service. Apple Podcasts wants me to sign up for their premium offering. Apple News keeps telling me that the article I want to read is for subscribers only. It got to the point that I deleted them all so they'd leave me alone.
      - taylodl 5y ago
        It might be I just don't use those apps. I use Feedly to read the news, I use Plum to listen to music, and I don't listen to podcasts. You're right though, Apple's apps shouldn't bark at you incessantly to purchase Apple's premium services.
  - woldemariam 5y ago
    > constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music or some other damn thing I don't want this is not happening on my iPhone
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    Definitely not my experience, and I don't pay for any Apple services. I had the Apple TV+ app installed for a while and I thought it was a bit annoying they used notifications to advertise new TV shows, but I did have the free Apple TV+ trial at the time.
- TrueGeek 5y ago
  And you don't have to buy the "expensive" phone. Their phones last nearly 10 years so you can buy used or get a new SE for $400.
fsflover 5y ago
> choice between using a more open system (which I like) You could consider a phone that actually uses and open-source system, GNU/Linux (and not Google Android, which is full of blobs): Librem 5 or Pinephone.
- leoedin 5y ago
  Is this a real option? Everything I've read about using the Pinephone suggests it's still very much a beta experience - missing drivers, buggy features etc. It also doesn't support any of the 3rd party apps I use - banking apps, maps, transit planning, whatsapp, spotify etc. There's a more compelling argument for using an AOSP based build without the Google apps - at least then you've got a pretty solid operating system. But you again are excluding a lot of apps - eg banking apps, which do security checks and don't like running on that environment. I was at a pub recently with a colleague who does that, and to install the pub's ordering app (without which he couldn't order a drink - thanks covid!) he had to download an APK from a forum. Hardly a secure operation.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > missing drivers, buggy features etc. It works fine 95% of the time. For many people, it can already make a daily driver (I daily drive mine). Sometimes it's slow though (which is why I recommend Librem 5, waiting for mine to arrive). > It also doesn't support any of the 3rd party apps I use - banking apps The real problem is that banks and government are forcing users into the duopoly. You should complain and change your bank if this is the case. > whatsapp, spotify Working, if you use Anbox and/or Waydroid. > maps Maps are working good enough for me. > transit planning This is actually a real problem.
    - dlivingston 5y ago
      > It works fine 95% of the time. A phone is a frankly critical device these days. 95% is not good enough for daily driving. I need >99% guarantee that phone calls and text messages will come through and behave appropriately. I need modern apps like Lyft, Spotify, Tesla (“car key”), and banking.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

I can tell you that it's a night and day difference switching to an OS that isn't actively trying to manipulate you. Apple isn't the good guys by any means, but once you've bought their expensive phone, you've largely already done what they want.

Copernicron 5y ago
That may have been true at one point but not anymore. My iPhone - which I'm typing this on - is constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music or some other damn thing I don't want. The way I see it, Apple is trying to manipulate me as much as Google is and for the exact same reason: money. They want to make more money off me and if that means advertising to me in the settings menu then that's what they'll do.
- hansel_der 5y ago
  > constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music "constantly" seems like a strech, sure you need a icloud account for the app store to work, but thats it. i don't recall having been nagged for anything more than once by apple. whatsapp on the other hand ...
  - Copernicron 5y ago
    I have a seemingly permanent notification for the settings app to, "finish setting up your iPhone." All I have to do is punch in my credit card number and sign up for Apple Pay. I don't want that.
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      now that you mention it, i remember the "finish setup..." nag. iirc it went away after i started to setup whatever and then cancel/abandon the setup thingy
- taylodl 5y ago
  > My iPhone - which I'm typing this on - is constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music That's interesting. I don't have any of these services (well, there is a free tier of iCloud you get by default) and I'm not pestered for anything. What is your phone doing to constantly try to get you to sign up for these services?
  - Copernicron 5y ago
    I'm just trying to use my phone. Apple Music wants me to subscribe to their streaming service. Apple Podcasts wants me to sign up for their premium offering. Apple News keeps telling me that the article I want to read is for subscribers only. It got to the point that I deleted them all so they'd leave me alone.
    - taylodl 5y ago
      It might be I just don't use those apps. I use Feedly to read the news, I use Plum to listen to music, and I don't listen to podcasts. You're right though, Apple's apps shouldn't bark at you incessantly to purchase Apple's premium services.
- woldemariam 5y ago
  > constantly trying to get me to sign up for iCloud or Apple Pay or Apple Music or some other damn thing I don't want this is not happening on my iPhone
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  Definitely not my experience, and I don't pay for any Apple services. I had the Apple TV+ app installed for a while and I thought it was a bit annoying they used notifications to advertise new TV shows, but I did have the free Apple TV+ trial at the time.
TrueGeek 5y ago
And you don't have to buy the "expensive" phone. Their phones last nearly 10 years so you can buy used or get a new SE for $400.

fsflover 5y ago

> choice between using a more open system (which I like) You could consider a phone that actually uses and open-source system, GNU/Linux (and not Google Android, which is full of blobs): Librem 5 or Pinephone.

leoedin 5y ago
Is this a real option? Everything I've read about using the Pinephone suggests it's still very much a beta experience - missing drivers, buggy features etc. It also doesn't support any of the 3rd party apps I use - banking apps, maps, transit planning, whatsapp, spotify etc. There's a more compelling argument for using an AOSP based build without the Google apps - at least then you've got a pretty solid operating system. But you again are excluding a lot of apps - eg banking apps, which do security checks and don't like running on that environment. I was at a pub recently with a colleague who does that, and to install the pub's ordering app (without which he couldn't order a drink - thanks covid!) he had to download an APK from a forum. Hardly a secure operation.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > missing drivers, buggy features etc. It works fine 95% of the time. For many people, it can already make a daily driver (I daily drive mine). Sometimes it's slow though (which is why I recommend Librem 5, waiting for mine to arrive). > It also doesn't support any of the 3rd party apps I use - banking apps The real problem is that banks and government are forcing users into the duopoly. You should complain and change your bank if this is the case. > whatsapp, spotify Working, if you use Anbox and/or Waydroid. > maps Maps are working good enough for me. > transit planning This is actually a real problem.
  - dlivingston 5y ago
    > It works fine 95% of the time. A phone is a frankly critical device these days. 95% is not good enough for daily driving. I need >99% guarantee that phone calls and text messages will come through and behave appropriately. I need modern apps like Lyft, Spotify, Tesla (“car key”), and banking.