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How does any social change come about then (e.g. equal rights, abortion laws) if you're saying common individuals have little influence? - Why would politician

How does any social change come about then (e.g. equal rights, abortion laws) if you're saying common individuals have little influence? - Why would politicians push for policies to e.g. reduce meat eating and flying when they know individuals don't feel strongly about this? - Where did the recent growth in plant based meat alternatives in shops and fast food places come from if not from individuals signalling what they want over the years? - Do companies not making products based on what they think consumers want and will buy? E.g. plant based meat, electric cars, reduced plastic packaging. - Are the views and behaviours of people in a social circle not influenced by their peers? E.g. don't some people give up meat because some of their friends opened their eyes to this issue? It feels like you're saying there's no point doing anything about anything. Changes like this aren't going to happen overnight either but that doesn't mean it's futile.

readonthegoapp 5y ago
yeah, i don't really know the best way to express it, but you could prob say something like, "achieving hard shit requires hard work". you could say 'there are no shortcuts'. or take the middle/later part of the Frederick Douglass quote: (injustices on the oppressed) will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both... that's saying, "we can say words, but it probably won't get us very far". and Madison Ave wants us to say a lot of words, and only say words. this doesn't mean violence, but it does means actual resistance. so how does social change happen? the answer is easy, if not desireable -- resistance. how did 'we' end slavery? how did 'we' get a weekend? how did 'we' end child labor? how did 'we' earn some free speech? how did 'we' earn some civil rights? it's nice to think that all these things could be achieved through what you buy at the store, or by planting a lawn/yard sign, but real activist-types know better. granted, speaking out in some capacity can be important, but there's probably a pretty good way to find out if what you're doing is actually challenging power, is trying to change the system for the better. so, speak out against white terrorism like Fred Hamptom, and have the FBI murder you, with the help of the Chicago PD, and have them all get away with it. try to build electric cars like Elon Musk, and have the US government give you a $400M loan, and ultimately become the richest man in the world. one guy was trying to change the system for the better. the other guy, not so much. most Americans have about zero idea what it takes to actually change the system. we saw signs of some white people starting to gain an understanding when they were were out in the streets protesting and being subjected to at least some of the violence that authorities regularly hand out to black people. you can occasionally see a clip of some white person, gop, dem, doesn't matter, getting manhandled by the police and exclaiming, "I'm white, and you're treating me like I'm black!" white people pretty much just chill b/c they're not subject to the terrorist violence handed out by kkk types, police, etc. white people fucked around, then they found out. ohhhhh, they said -- so _that's_ what happens when you challenge power. now i understand what black people have been saying, well, forever. so, plant a yard sign. buy an e-car. swap your plastic straw for paper. or, you could do something that actually attempts to change the system for the better -- that challenges power -- and when you do, you will know it, because your world will get _very_ stressful in an instant. look at what happened to Kaepernick. look at what is happening to Kanter. look at what happened to Ali. to Abdul-Rauf. etc. myriad examples thoughout history even in the US alone.
- seanwilson 5y ago
  How do people get to the stage where they're prepared to get involved in protesting/resisting? What role does individuals influencing others play in the build up to this? Is boycotting (i.e. not buying certain products or from certain companies) a form of resistance/protest?
  - readonthegoapp 5y ago
    disclaimer: i don't know anything about anything, in particular 'activism', but i'm sure of some things -- like that people/groups with power rarely just give it away. i think there are prob folks who have studied 'how to do activism' (saul bellow, 'rules for radicals' is something i've seen or heard about) -- 'how to win friends and influence people' (dale carnegie -- think i started reading this once, but seemed so manipulative, abandoned it -- not about 'activism' in the sense of challenging power, but presumably about 'influencing people (to act)'), etc. i think boycotting can be a form of resistance/protest - it's often not nothing - especially if paired with 'real organizing' - like the Montgomery Bus Boycott, where people organized alternate ways to get people to wherever they were going, etc. so, if we wanted to challenge Starbucks (illegally) cracking down on workers/unions, we could boycott them, but then what? well, ideally we'd start working on unionizing their workforce anyways, start building our own union-friendly cafes, etc.

readonthegoapp 5y ago

yeah, i don't really know the best way to express it, but you could prob say something like, "achieving hard shit requires hard work". you could say 'there are no shortcuts'. or take the middle/later part of the Frederick Douglass quote: (injustices on the oppressed) will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both... that's saying, "we can say words, but it probably won't get us very far". and Madison Ave wants us to say a lot of words, and only say words. this doesn't mean violence, but it does means actual resistance. so how does social change happen? the answer is easy, if not desireable -- resistance. how did 'we' end slavery? how did 'we' get a weekend? how did 'we' end child labor? how did 'we' earn some free speech? how did 'we' earn some civil rights? it's nice to think that all these things could be achieved through what you buy at the store, or by planting a lawn/yard sign, but real activist-types know better. granted, speaking out in some capacity can be important, but there's probably a pretty good way to find out if what you're doing is actually challenging power, is trying to change the system for the better. so, speak out against white terrorism like Fred Hamptom, and have the FBI murder you, with the help of the Chicago PD, and have them all get away with it. try to build electric cars like Elon Musk, and have the US government give you a $400M loan, and ultimately become the richest man in the world. one guy was trying to change the system for the better. the other guy, not so much. most Americans have about zero idea what it takes to actually change the system. we saw signs of some white people starting to gain an understanding when they were were out in the streets protesting and being subjected to at least some of the violence that authorities regularly hand out to black people. you can occasionally see a clip of some white person, gop, dem, doesn't matter, getting manhandled by the police and exclaiming, "I'm white, and you're treating me like I'm black!" white people pretty much just chill b/c they're not subject to the terrorist violence handed out by kkk types, police, etc. white people fucked around, then they found out. ohhhhh, they said -- so _that's_ what happens when you challenge power. now i understand what black people have been saying, well, forever. so, plant a yard sign. buy an e-car. swap your plastic straw for paper. or, you could do something that actually attempts to change the system for the better -- that challenges power -- and when you do, you will know it, because your world will get _very_ stressful in an instant. look at what happened to Kaepernick. look at what is happening to Kanter. look at what happened to Ali. to Abdul-Rauf. etc. myriad examples thoughout history even in the US alone.

seanwilson 5y ago
How do people get to the stage where they're prepared to get involved in protesting/resisting? What role does individuals influencing others play in the build up to this? Is boycotting (i.e. not buying certain products or from certain companies) a form of resistance/protest?
- readonthegoapp 5y ago
  disclaimer: i don't know anything about anything, in particular 'activism', but i'm sure of some things -- like that people/groups with power rarely just give it away. i think there are prob folks who have studied 'how to do activism' (saul bellow, 'rules for radicals' is something i've seen or heard about) -- 'how to win friends and influence people' (dale carnegie -- think i started reading this once, but seemed so manipulative, abandoned it -- not about 'activism' in the sense of challenging power, but presumably about 'influencing people (to act)'), etc. i think boycotting can be a form of resistance/protest - it's often not nothing - especially if paired with 'real organizing' - like the Montgomery Bus Boycott, where people organized alternate ways to get people to wherever they were going, etc. so, if we wanted to challenge Starbucks (illegally) cracking down on workers/unions, we could boycott them, but then what? well, ideally we'd start working on unionizing their workforce anyways, start building our own union-friendly cafes, etc.