5 ms·

This doesn't make sense, and I'm a bit worried: I "cheaped" out and have a "left side only USB-C" MBPro from 2019. Should I understand that having any kind of

by xgbi 5y ago

This doesn't make sense, and I'm a bit worried: I "cheaped" out and have a "left side only USB-C" MBPro from 2019. Should I understand that having any kind of load on the measly 2 ports I have on my 1600€ computer will lead to abysmal performance? Like, attaching a USB hub to add basic necessity like HDMI or USB A?

egypturnash 5y ago
Yes, my 13” 2016 Pro has this problem and only has two left side ports. It chews through batteries about once every 18 months. It’s been really annoying. Maybe they fixed this issue in the time between 2016 and 2019.
WA 5y ago
Attach an LG Ultrafine 5K and you can fry an egg on your €3,300 laptop and use the white noise from the fan to sleep well.
- danlugo92 5y ago
  Attach the same monitor to both an M1 and an Intel Laptop, you can fry chicken on the latter.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    Can you? My i5-10300H equipped laptop drives two external monitors daily and the fans don't even start in normal use. Maybe specify which laptop? The M1 can't even support two monitors plugged in directly, which is a joke for a machine this expensive.
    - easton 5y ago
      The new MacBooks from a few weeks ago can due to Apple putting some effort into the GPU. I think they’re talking about the Intel MacBook Pro, which had meh cooling from what I hear. (Although if you want to see bad cooling, try out a Surface. Throttle city after anything strenuous.)
      - alpaca128 5y ago
        > if you want to see bad cooling, try out a Surface. Throttle city after anything strenuous Implying Apple's cooling is any better? Both build difficult to repair devices tuned only for looks. Whether it's the Macbook that literally doubles its performance if you build a custom cooler that prevents throttling, or the Surface Book that you can't use at full performance for long because the charger cannot deliver enough power to sustain it. Nobody can cheat thermodynamics, and attaching "Pro" to the name doesn't make it go faster either. I just hope I can keep buying "normal" laptops. They're ugly and noisy, but at least I know they can be fixed without melting off the keyboard or the repair guy telling me it's water damage when it isn't.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - ansible 5y ago
      Do you have a discrete GPU on that laptop? Intel integrated GPUs are often set up to use main memory instead of dedicated GPU memory (as for the Iris graphics). I wonder if that makes a difference, though it is on the same package.
    - matthewmacleod 5y ago
      The M1 can't even support two monitors plugged in directly, which is a joke for a machine this expensive. That is the case for the M1, which is the lower-end of the new processors – a bit disappointing because I'd've otherwise bought one, but a relatively uncommon scenario overall for a lower-end Mac. It's not the case for the recently-launched chips, which support up to 2x6k external displays (M1 Pro) or 3x6k + 1x4k (M1 Max).
      - gambiting 5y ago
        Yes, correct, sorry maybe I should have specified.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - imeron 5y ago
      For the Macbook Pros definitely. Just try a non-4k (or FHD) display to trigger the external GPU to see the fans spinning up. Any ultra-wide screen will do.
    - formerly_proven 5y ago
      I've had dual-head on 12? 13? year old laptops - no problem (not HiDPI, which was not a thing then, obviously, but FHD or WQHD). Currently doing the same with an i5-8350U, runs passively most of the time.
    - spectre3d 5y ago
      My M1 Mac mini supports two monitors plugged in directly. I know you mentioned “laptop”. OT: It’s nice that DisplayLink connections let an M1 machine have unlimited displays, and that the performance of their driver under Big Sur and above has been fantastic for me for the past half year for 2 extra displays. (Four total, 1 is vertical)
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  At least it's white noise. Tonal is far worse :D
nikanj 5y ago
Yes. But the computer is very, very, very thin. Which sells more computers than actual performance under load. Benchmarks show the MB having decent performance, as they start cold and don’t have external devices attached either. Thermal throttling only shows up once you’ve already bought
- dahfizz 5y ago
  > Yes. But the computer is very, very, very thin. Which sells more computers than actual performance under load. No. Apple sells computers regardless, but now that "form over function" Johnny Ive has left Apple, Mac sales have actually shot up. People want their computer to look and feel good, but it still needs to function as a computer. Now that the actual functionality of the Mac is a priority again, they are selling better.
- hunter2_ 5y ago
  Reminiscent of the Volkswagen dieselgate situation where emissions are fine during the EPA test drive but horrible otherwise. This sort of thing will probably haunt us forever, in various forms.
- bierjunge 5y ago
  I have the 2019 MBP 16" with i9 inside and it's terrible for any task heavier than browsing the internet or watching cat videos. Running CMake + gcc on a bigger project? The fans start running like crazy. The performance of the i9 is awesome, at least for the first 1-2 minutes, after that the CPU is throttling you back to the 90's and the fans are spinning even louder. But this is not even the funniest issue with it. I have the biggest and most performant charger (96W, pretty much the maximum, because the USB-C standard states, you can only push up to 100W through it). You may think, if Apple put that charger in the box, it should be enough to achieve max performance with it AND still be able to charge it. Nope, but maybe it would be at least enough power, so the battery is not discharged. Lol, nope, higher load for a extended time WILL discharge your battery while being connected to the power supply. I've tested it with two separate MBP with exactly the same spec (i9 + 32GB RAM + Radeon 5500M 8GB) with exactly the same behavior.
discardable_dan 5y ago
I have a 2019 MBP that runs hot because it's supporting an external monitor. The year before every laptop became a WFH desktop, Apple decided that running an external monitor could be a massive heat issue and nobody would care. It's literally burning out my work laptop, and soon I'll have to ask IT for a new one. Apple doesn't care, though: they already got paid. As I understand it, though, most of the thermal issues are to do with the north bridge and the video card. Basically, Intel's power model for USB is built around performance, not thermals. GamersNexus actually has some interesting videos about this, but at the end of the day Intel shit the bed on northbridge performance while developing USB-4 support. I wildly speculate that this is a massive part of why Apple moved to their own silicon: to get away from Intel, who is clearly losing every competition they're in. (I don't know why Apple didn't go toward AMD, but I expect GPU hang-ups were part of it.)
- millzlane 5y ago
  They finally made the device a little thicker. Apple could have put a better quality heat sync and fan in these models, they chose not too.
  - jgwil2 5y ago
    *heat sink Edit: why is this downvoted? This is a legitimately confusing mistake; people may think it has something to do with synchronization.
    - goldenkey 5y ago
      It's pedantic and the way you did it was rude. You ought to have commented: "I believe you meant heat sink, not 'heat sync', am I correct?" The average HNer is above average in intelligence and does not require a minor typo to be explicitly corrected.
  - znpy 5y ago
    As GP pointed out, apple doesn't care, they already got paid. I'll go further and I'll say I think it's actual dishonesty on their side: they're providing additional thermal headspace to their own cpus, when instead they have constrained Intel for years. It's still pointless to point this out, apple users are going to buy apple stuff anyway...

by xgbi 5y ago

egypturnash 5y ago

Yes, my 13” 2016 Pro has this problem and only has two left side ports. It chews through batteries about once every 18 months. It’s been really annoying. Maybe they fixed this issue in the time between 2016 and 2019.

WA 5y ago

Attach an LG Ultrafine 5K and you can fry an egg on your €3,300 laptop and use the white noise from the fan to sleep well.

danlugo92 5y ago
Attach the same monitor to both an M1 and an Intel Laptop, you can fry chicken on the latter.
- gambiting 5y ago
  Can you? My i5-10300H equipped laptop drives two external monitors daily and the fans don't even start in normal use. Maybe specify which laptop? The M1 can't even support two monitors plugged in directly, which is a joke for a machine this expensive.
  - easton 5y ago
    The new MacBooks from a few weeks ago can due to Apple putting some effort into the GPU. I think they’re talking about the Intel MacBook Pro, which had meh cooling from what I hear. (Although if you want to see bad cooling, try out a Surface. Throttle city after anything strenuous.)
    - alpaca128 5y ago
      > if you want to see bad cooling, try out a Surface. Throttle city after anything strenuous Implying Apple's cooling is any better? Both build difficult to repair devices tuned only for looks. Whether it's the Macbook that literally doubles its performance if you build a custom cooler that prevents throttling, or the Surface Book that you can't use at full performance for long because the charger cannot deliver enough power to sustain it. Nobody can cheat thermodynamics, and attaching "Pro" to the name doesn't make it go faster either. I just hope I can keep buying "normal" laptops. They're ugly and noisy, but at least I know they can be fixed without melting off the keyboard or the repair guy telling me it's water damage when it isn't.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ansible 5y ago
    Do you have a discrete GPU on that laptop? Intel integrated GPUs are often set up to use main memory instead of dedicated GPU memory (as for the Iris graphics). I wonder if that makes a difference, though it is on the same package.
  - matthewmacleod 5y ago
    The M1 can't even support two monitors plugged in directly, which is a joke for a machine this expensive. That is the case for the M1, which is the lower-end of the new processors – a bit disappointing because I'd've otherwise bought one, but a relatively uncommon scenario overall for a lower-end Mac. It's not the case for the recently-launched chips, which support up to 2x6k external displays (M1 Pro) or 3x6k + 1x4k (M1 Max).
    - gambiting 5y ago
      Yes, correct, sorry maybe I should have specified.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - imeron 5y ago
    For the Macbook Pros definitely. Just try a non-4k (or FHD) display to trigger the external GPU to see the fans spinning up. Any ultra-wide screen will do.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    I've had dual-head on 12? 13? year old laptops - no problem (not HiDPI, which was not a thing then, obviously, but FHD or WQHD). Currently doing the same with an i5-8350U, runs passively most of the time.
  - spectre3d 5y ago
    My M1 Mac mini supports two monitors plugged in directly. I know you mentioned “laptop”. OT: It’s nice that DisplayLink connections let an M1 machine have unlimited displays, and that the performance of their driver under Big Sur and above has been fantastic for me for the past half year for 2 extra displays. (Four total, 1 is vertical)
ahartmetz 5y ago
At least it's white noise. Tonal is far worse :D

nikanj 5y ago

Yes. But the computer is very, very, very thin. Which sells more computers than actual performance under load. Benchmarks show the MB having decent performance, as they start cold and don’t have external devices attached either. Thermal throttling only shows up once you’ve already bought

dahfizz 5y ago
> Yes. But the computer is very, very, very thin. Which sells more computers than actual performance under load. No. Apple sells computers regardless, but now that "form over function" Johnny Ive has left Apple, Mac sales have actually shot up. People want their computer to look and feel good, but it still needs to function as a computer. Now that the actual functionality of the Mac is a priority again, they are selling better.
hunter2_ 5y ago
Reminiscent of the Volkswagen dieselgate situation where emissions are fine during the EPA test drive but horrible otherwise. This sort of thing will probably haunt us forever, in various forms.
bierjunge 5y ago
I have the 2019 MBP 16" with i9 inside and it's terrible for any task heavier than browsing the internet or watching cat videos. Running CMake + gcc on a bigger project? The fans start running like crazy. The performance of the i9 is awesome, at least for the first 1-2 minutes, after that the CPU is throttling you back to the 90's and the fans are spinning even louder. But this is not even the funniest issue with it. I have the biggest and most performant charger (96W, pretty much the maximum, because the USB-C standard states, you can only push up to 100W through it). You may think, if Apple put that charger in the box, it should be enough to achieve max performance with it AND still be able to charge it. Nope, but maybe it would be at least enough power, so the battery is not discharged. Lol, nope, higher load for a extended time WILL discharge your battery while being connected to the power supply. I've tested it with two separate MBP with exactly the same spec (i9 + 32GB RAM + Radeon 5500M 8GB) with exactly the same behavior.

discardable_dan 5y ago

I have a 2019 MBP that runs hot because it's supporting an external monitor. The year before every laptop became a WFH desktop, Apple decided that running an external monitor could be a massive heat issue and nobody would care. It's literally burning out my work laptop, and soon I'll have to ask IT for a new one. Apple doesn't care, though: they already got paid. As I understand it, though, most of the thermal issues are to do with the north bridge and the video card. Basically, Intel's power model for USB is built around performance, not thermals. GamersNexus actually has some interesting videos about this, but at the end of the day Intel shit the bed on northbridge performance while developing USB-4 support. I wildly speculate that this is a massive part of why Apple moved to their own silicon: to get away from Intel, who is clearly losing every competition they're in. (I don't know why Apple didn't go toward AMD, but I expect GPU hang-ups were part of it.)

millzlane 5y ago
They finally made the device a little thicker. Apple could have put a better quality heat sync and fan in these models, they chose not too.
- jgwil2 5y ago
  *heat sink Edit: why is this downvoted? This is a legitimately confusing mistake; people may think it has something to do with synchronization.
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    It's pedantic and the way you did it was rude. You ought to have commented: "I believe you meant heat sink, not 'heat sync', am I correct?" The average HNer is above average in intelligence and does not require a minor typo to be explicitly corrected.
- znpy 5y ago
  As GP pointed out, apple doesn't care, they already got paid. I'll go further and I'll say I think it's actual dishonesty on their side: they're providing additional thermal headspace to their own cpus, when instead they have constrained Intel for years. It's still pointless to point this out, apple users are going to buy apple stuff anyway...