5 ms·

If you're worried about these sorts of situations then there aren't going to be very many choices for you. You can't choose Intel because they have their manage

If you're worried about these sorts of situations then there aren't going to be very many choices for you. You can't choose Intel because they have their management engine, you can't choose AMD because they don't own their own fabs. You could go full air-gapped and get a machine without any network cards. Would still recommend a nice bunker deep inside a mountain just to be on the safe side.

avhception 5y ago
Well, there still is https://raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html https://raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html if you're not dependent on x86-64... You'd still be relying on other peoples fabs, of course. But it's a step up.
markb139 5y ago
I wonder if you could get around this by having a multi CPU machine setup (many vendors silicon) and have a "Generals problem" algorithm ?
varispeed 5y ago
Ok, so because other companies do that it should be acceptable? I don't understand your patronising tone. How is that helpful?
- hmottestad 5y ago
  I don't think Apple does this.
- nindalf 5y ago
  Your concerns mean theres no modern device you could possibly be using. So either you’re bringing up something that no one, including you, actually cares about. Or you’re commenting on Hacker news using the butterfly method on HN servers (https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/)
- skinkestek 5y ago
  It is just that many of us are fed up with people who immediately move the goal posts every single time someone presents an alternative or an improvent. The implication (intentionally or not) being that we can just as well continue to run Chrome on Windows 11 on open WiFis because everything is broken all the time and if not any Three Letter Agency can always kidnap you or someone you care about and get their secrets that way. Encryption works and massively increases the workload for would be drag net operators! Having a choice of technology is good and also increases the workload for would be drag net operators. Competition is good and forces companies to get their act together. Trashing every good thing that happens because it isn't perfect is demotivating and I'm also absolutely fed up with it.
- notafraudster 5y ago
  Assuming your question was sincere: You cannot ensure that the SoC isn't doing something secret that the OS doesn't know about in this environment. Every respondent so far assumed you knew this (because it's an unusually high-knowledge question to ask and an unusually obvious answer) and so assumed the actual purpose of your post was to declare that you personally wouldn't use an environment where you can't be sure the SoC isn't doing something nefarious. The people replying don't really find that declaration interesting. Your subsequent reply says that the choice to live with this particular risk is some sort of tacit acceptance, which implies you are not tacitly accepting it. Since no such environment exists, except for edge case hypotheticals like only powering an air gapped computer inside a faraday cage in a lead bunker, most people expect that you too are tacitly accepting it, which makes this particular complaint feel like a non sequitur and not an invitation to discuss the broader issue. If you have an actual real life use case about trying to harden a system to this degree, like you are responsible for nuclear safety or the unlock codes for the secret lunar base or something, I am sure people would like to read about it.
d3nj4l 5y ago
AMD processors also have an equivalent to the Intel Management Engine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processo...

avhception 5y ago

Well, there still is https://raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html https://raptorcs.com/content/base/products.html if you're not dependent on x86-64... You'd still be relying on other peoples fabs, of course. But it's a step up.

markb139 5y ago

I wonder if you could get around this by having a multi CPU machine setup (many vendors silicon) and have a "Generals problem" algorithm ?

varispeed 5y ago

Ok, so because other companies do that it should be acceptable? I don't understand your patronising tone. How is that helpful?

hmottestad 5y ago
I don't think Apple does this.
nindalf 5y ago
Your concerns mean theres no modern device you could possibly be using. So either you’re bringing up something that no one, including you, actually cares about. Or you’re commenting on Hacker news using the butterfly method on HN servers (https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/)
skinkestek 5y ago
It is just that many of us are fed up with people who immediately move the goal posts every single time someone presents an alternative or an improvent. The implication (intentionally or not) being that we can just as well continue to run Chrome on Windows 11 on open WiFis because everything is broken all the time and if not any Three Letter Agency can always kidnap you or someone you care about and get their secrets that way. Encryption works and massively increases the workload for would be drag net operators! Having a choice of technology is good and also increases the workload for would be drag net operators. Competition is good and forces companies to get their act together. Trashing every good thing that happens because it isn't perfect is demotivating and I'm also absolutely fed up with it.
notafraudster 5y ago
Assuming your question was sincere: You cannot ensure that the SoC isn't doing something secret that the OS doesn't know about in this environment. Every respondent so far assumed you knew this (because it's an unusually high-knowledge question to ask and an unusually obvious answer) and so assumed the actual purpose of your post was to declare that you personally wouldn't use an environment where you can't be sure the SoC isn't doing something nefarious. The people replying don't really find that declaration interesting. Your subsequent reply says that the choice to live with this particular risk is some sort of tacit acceptance, which implies you are not tacitly accepting it. Since no such environment exists, except for edge case hypotheticals like only powering an air gapped computer inside a faraday cage in a lead bunker, most people expect that you too are tacitly accepting it, which makes this particular complaint feel like a non sequitur and not an invitation to discuss the broader issue. If you have an actual real life use case about trying to harden a system to this degree, like you are responsible for nuclear safety or the unlock codes for the secret lunar base or something, I am sure people would like to read about it.

d3nj4l 5y ago

AMD processors also have an equivalent to the Intel Management Engine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processo...