5 ms·

A Biography of E.O. Wilson, the Scientist Who Foresaw Our Troubles

32 points by Hooke 5y ago

jschveibinz 5y ago
The title is a little over the top. E.O. Wilson is an excellent writer and speaker, but I wouldn’t necessarily call him a visionary. Extinction is, for better and for worse, part of the natural process here on earth. Over 99% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. https://ourworldindata.org/extinctions https://ourworldindata.org/extinctions
- jjtheblunt 5y ago
  What's the rate (if known) of generation of new species? ( randomly, i thought of that while thinking like someone who wrote a parallel (and parallelizing) garbage collector before )
  - culi 5y ago
    This is a little unanswerable in the same way questions about how many languages there are are unanswerable. The way taxonomists decide what makes two different patterns of life separate species varies drastically across for example plants and animals (fungi are especially messy). Different standards are used even within botanical taxonomy across different families. Even measures of phylogenetic differences have big limitations and are applied differently Also to touch just a tiny bit on just how messy this question can get with fungi: If you take certain species of fungi, put them in some soil they're really not adapted for, they will literally increase the rates of horizontal gene transfer and start borrowing genes from soil bacteria there in order to quickly evolve themselves and better adapt to that soil https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5095653/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5095653/ Certain parasitic plants may act similarly: https://www.pnas.org/content/113/45/E7010 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/45/E7010
    - jjtheblunt 5y ago
      thank you; i learned from your comment which is great
- newsbinator 5y ago
  > Over 99% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. This is often cited, but the jury's out on whether it applies to us. As far as we can guess, none of those 99% of species could control fire, much less band together to push aside an asteroid or develop a vaccine. We, too, might go extinct. We might even go extinct because we can control fire or do space things or biology things. But as far as we know, compared to 99% of all species, we're a special case.
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    I can't wait for noninvasive brain scan tech that can give whales, orcas, and dolphins voices to communicate with us. We'll probably need to develop a semi tame culture of cetaceans to go out and live and learn among wild groups to allow us to learn more. Our brains and thumbs are enough to assist other species, not just our own - we might be the best thing to happen to every extant species if we can get our shit together in time.
    - kiba 5y ago
      I don't think they are capable of communicating anything more than "food", "hey, the surf's good", "mate", or "back off!"
      - robbedpeter 5y ago
        I dunno - Bunny the talking dog has a YouTube channel that's fascinating. The dog talks about dreams, feelings, friends, family, and fart jokes. Koko the gorilla was a more interesting and empathic person than many actual humans I can think of. Whales making fart jokes would make the entire enterprise worth it. I think not having language is a limitation on the upper bounds of animal intelligence, and providing voices through technology will enhance animal cognition beyond what they could achieve naturally. Humans providing education and training could make their lives more meaningful and nuanced by giving them the jump start of participating in our culture. Besides, imagine cooperative orca tribes assisting in human endeavors, like seasteading and ocean rescue? Who knows, if orcas are smart enough, they could be the first nonhuman writers or scientists?
- mandmandam 5y ago
  > Extinction is, for better and for worse, part of the natural process here on earth You make it sound like human-caused extinction is "part of the natural process" - it is not. "The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates.[4][9][10][11][12][13]" "human population size and/or specific human activities, not climate change, caused rapidly rising global mammal extinction rates during the past 126,000 years. Around 96% of all mammalian extinctions over this time period are attributable to human impacts" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > You make it sound like human-caused extinction is "part of the natural process" - it is not. Only from a human perspective are humans something other than natural. This seems to conflict with the vague sort of anti-humanism that is in vogue among many environmentalists. If you want to look at humanity from a perspective that isn't human then "the Holocene extinction" is perfectly natural.
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      > Only from a human perspective are humans something other than natural. I don't think that's actually true. Any alien observing the planet over the last 4 billion years would recognize us as an anomaly. Polluted cities, sucking in value from all around, at the cost of countless species have often been compared to cancer. The aliens might see things similarly, with their large dispassionate eye and tall perspective.
      - slibhb 5y ago
        > Any alien observing the planet over the last 4 billion years would recognize us as an anomaly. An anomaly, sure, but they could very well view us as a natural anomaly. We're talking about fiction now and there's plenty of fiction that runs along these lines (aliens view humans as humans view other animals). > Polluted cities, sucking in value from all around, at the cost of countless species have often been compared to cancer. Not a great sign when your worldview is exactly the same as the villain in The Matrix...
- prvc 5y ago
  I think anyone who founds a new field of scientific research may fairly be called a visionary. As for extinction, I did not see any place where he denied that it could be caused naturally. More relevant is whether it is anthropogenic and/or detrimental.
famil 5y ago
William Catton is another visonary. I consider his book, Overshoot to be better than limits to growth. This lecture sums up his work well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8

32 points by Hooke 5y ago

The title is a little over the top. E.O. Wilson is an excellent writer and speaker, but I wouldn’t necessarily call him a visionary. Extinction is, for better and for worse, part of the natural process here on earth. Over 99% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. https://ourworldindata.org/extinctions https://ourworldindata.org/extinctions

jjtheblunt 5y ago
What's the rate (if known) of generation of new species? ( randomly, i thought of that while thinking like someone who wrote a parallel (and parallelizing) garbage collector before )
- culi 5y ago
  This is a little unanswerable in the same way questions about how many languages there are are unanswerable. The way taxonomists decide what makes two different patterns of life separate species varies drastically across for example plants and animals (fungi are especially messy). Different standards are used even within botanical taxonomy across different families. Even measures of phylogenetic differences have big limitations and are applied differently Also to touch just a tiny bit on just how messy this question can get with fungi: If you take certain species of fungi, put them in some soil they're really not adapted for, they will literally increase the rates of horizontal gene transfer and start borrowing genes from soil bacteria there in order to quickly evolve themselves and better adapt to that soil https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5095653/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5095653/ Certain parasitic plants may act similarly: https://www.pnas.org/content/113/45/E7010 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/45/E7010
  - jjtheblunt 5y ago
    thank you; i learned from your comment which is great
newsbinator 5y ago
> Over 99% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. This is often cited, but the jury's out on whether it applies to us. As far as we can guess, none of those 99% of species could control fire, much less band together to push aside an asteroid or develop a vaccine. We, too, might go extinct. We might even go extinct because we can control fire or do space things or biology things. But as far as we know, compared to 99% of all species, we're a special case.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  I can't wait for noninvasive brain scan tech that can give whales, orcas, and dolphins voices to communicate with us. We'll probably need to develop a semi tame culture of cetaceans to go out and live and learn among wild groups to allow us to learn more. Our brains and thumbs are enough to assist other species, not just our own - we might be the best thing to happen to every extant species if we can get our shit together in time.
  - kiba 5y ago
    I don't think they are capable of communicating anything more than "food", "hey, the surf's good", "mate", or "back off!"
    - robbedpeter 5y ago
      I dunno - Bunny the talking dog has a YouTube channel that's fascinating. The dog talks about dreams, feelings, friends, family, and fart jokes. Koko the gorilla was a more interesting and empathic person than many actual humans I can think of. Whales making fart jokes would make the entire enterprise worth it. I think not having language is a limitation on the upper bounds of animal intelligence, and providing voices through technology will enhance animal cognition beyond what they could achieve naturally. Humans providing education and training could make their lives more meaningful and nuanced by giving them the jump start of participating in our culture. Besides, imagine cooperative orca tribes assisting in human endeavors, like seasteading and ocean rescue? Who knows, if orcas are smart enough, they could be the first nonhuman writers or scientists?
mandmandam 5y ago
> Extinction is, for better and for worse, part of the natural process here on earth You make it sound like human-caused extinction is "part of the natural process" - it is not. "The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates.[4][9][10][11][12][13]" "human population size and/or specific human activities, not climate change, caused rapidly rising global mammal extinction rates during the past 126,000 years. Around 96% of all mammalian extinctions over this time period are attributable to human impacts" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
- slibhb 5y ago
  > You make it sound like human-caused extinction is "part of the natural process" - it is not. Only from a human perspective are humans something other than natural. This seems to conflict with the vague sort of anti-humanism that is in vogue among many environmentalists. If you want to look at humanity from a perspective that isn't human then "the Holocene extinction" is perfectly natural.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    > Only from a human perspective are humans something other than natural. I don't think that's actually true. Any alien observing the planet over the last 4 billion years would recognize us as an anomaly. Polluted cities, sucking in value from all around, at the cost of countless species have often been compared to cancer. The aliens might see things similarly, with their large dispassionate eye and tall perspective.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      > Any alien observing the planet over the last 4 billion years would recognize us as an anomaly. An anomaly, sure, but they could very well view us as a natural anomaly. We're talking about fiction now and there's plenty of fiction that runs along these lines (aliens view humans as humans view other animals). > Polluted cities, sucking in value from all around, at the cost of countless species have often been compared to cancer. Not a great sign when your worldview is exactly the same as the villain in The Matrix...
prvc 5y ago
I think anyone who founds a new field of scientific research may fairly be called a visionary. As for extinction, I did not see any place where he denied that it could be caused naturally. More relevant is whether it is anthropogenic and/or detrimental.

famil 5y ago

William Catton is another visonary. I consider his book, Overshoot to be better than limits to growth. This lecture sums up his work well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8