17 ms·

As much as I love these kinds of posts, if you want uptake, either you do it within VSCode, or it simply doesn't matter. Modern programmers expect IDEs and int

by bsder 5y ago

As much as I love these kinds of posts, if you want uptake, either you do it within VSCode, or it simply doesn't matter. Modern programmers expect IDEs and integration, that's just the way it is. Those of us comfortable with the command line are just too rare to count.

pjmlp 5y ago
Here, https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/toolsuite/gnatstudio https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/toolsuite/gnatstudio
- bsder 5y ago
  "Request Pricing" button with no prices. LOLOLOLOL. Can you say "More Money Than Brains ^W^W^W^W Enterprise Only Need Apply" any more strongly? The worst part? This probably isn't more than $1K per seat. If so, just put "1K per seat" on the price and let people buy the thing. And, if it is more than 1K per seat in this day and age, well, you have a nice answer for why nobody uses Ada.
  - okl 5y ago
    Community edition: https://www.adacore.com/download https://www.adacore.com/download
    - bsder 5y ago
      Thanks for pointing that out, because it was not on the linked page nor on the main page. They do a good job of never mentioning it anywhere on the main pages. (I suspect that's intentional. It's always one extra click hidden--It's buried under the Community tab which then has a Download tab. Or it's under the Try Ada now which then gives you a GNAT Community Download button.) The lack of transparent pricing is still an issue, though.
      - okl 5y ago
        Sure, you can also find it packaged on many Linux distros, e.g. https://packages.debian.org/sid/gnat-gps https://packages.debian.org/sid/gnat-gps or https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gnat-gps/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gnat-gps/ I usually prefer vim: https://github.com/thindil/vim-ada https://github.com/thindil/vim-ada VSCode: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=AdaCore.ada https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=AdaCore....
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Enough people pay for Ada tooling, to keep 7 vendors feeding the families of their employees. https://www.adacore.com/ https://www.adacore.com/ https://www.ghs.com/products/ada_optimizing_compilers.html https://www.ghs.com/products/ada_optimizing_compilers.html https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer-tools/apexada https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer-tools/apexada https://www.ddci.com/products_score/ https://www.ddci.com/products_score/ http://www.irvine.com/tech.html http://www.irvine.com/tech.html http://www.ocsystems.com/w/index.php/OCS:PowerAda http://www.ocsystems.com/w/index.php/OCS:PowerAda http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/janus95/j-ada95.htm http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/janus95/j-ada95.htm VSCode, XCode, VS Community, Android Studio aren't free beer as such, the salaries of the teams come from Apple hardware, Windows and Azure licenses, Google Cloud and 30% app store,...
  - onox 5y ago
    You can just do `apt install gnat` or `pacman -S gcc-ada` for free :)
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    I have been using gps for ages, it is free.
deknos 5y ago
Please leave your echo chamber. Not everyone uses IDEs. And also it is not needed for a demo for embedded development
- bsder 5y ago
  > Please leave your echo chamber. Not everyone uses IDEs. You are so wrong about embedded development I don't know where to start. Trying to have a fully command-line development path requires you to actually fight with most chip manufacturers (this has finally gotten better in the last 5 years as basically everything has converged to ARM Cortex-M which is supported via official gcc releases from ARM). I can't think of anyone who developed for a PIC without MPLAB in the last 20 years (probably 30, but I'm being nice). Well, there are some people who didn't use MPLAB, but they used IAR or some other IDE. Keil is the standard for your ARM processor. Every manufacturer supports Keil first and then worries about whether you can use another IDE. The raw toolchain is almost never tested. Nordic forced you through Segger Embedded Studio but now has thrown in behind VSCode. Fortunately, you could generally peel out the pieces you needed for command line development. And the ones who didn't fall into those categories generally bodged some horror together using Eclipse. Even as far back as PowerPC and ColdFire people were using things like CodeWarrior. Command line things like Cygnus were not common. I would suggest you get out of the HN echo chamber and realize that the vast majority of software development is done on Windows where "pointy-clicky" is the rule and "command line" is anathema.
  - rcxdude 5y ago
    Yup, the expectation from a huge portion of embedded developers is a complete package of tools where if it doesn't exist in the GUI, it doesn't exist. See here for an example of that attitude (relating to rust): https://www.reddit.com/r/embedded/comments/pwkr5w/writing_embedded_firmware_using_rust/hekiu7t/ https://www.reddit.com/r/embedded/comments/pwkr5w/writing_em... (I think this attitude is one of the ways/reasons that embedded is a bit of a ghetto in the software development world. It also makes it far more difficult to have a codebase which supports multiple platforms)
    - 5y ago

by bsder 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago

Here, https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/toolsuite/gnatstudio https://www.adacore.com/gnatpro/toolsuite/gnatstudio

bsder 5y ago
"Request Pricing" button with no prices. LOLOLOLOL. Can you say "More Money Than Brains ^W^W^W^W Enterprise Only Need Apply" any more strongly? The worst part? This probably isn't more than $1K per seat. If so, just put "1K per seat" on the price and let people buy the thing. And, if it is more than 1K per seat in this day and age, well, you have a nice answer for why nobody uses Ada.
- okl 5y ago
  Community edition: https://www.adacore.com/download https://www.adacore.com/download
  - bsder 5y ago
    Thanks for pointing that out, because it was not on the linked page nor on the main page. They do a good job of never mentioning it anywhere on the main pages. (I suspect that's intentional. It's always one extra click hidden--It's buried under the Community tab which then has a Download tab. Or it's under the Try Ada now which then gives you a GNAT Community Download button.) The lack of transparent pricing is still an issue, though.
    - okl 5y ago
      Sure, you can also find it packaged on many Linux distros, e.g. https://packages.debian.org/sid/gnat-gps https://packages.debian.org/sid/gnat-gps or https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gnat-gps/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gnat-gps/ I usually prefer vim: https://github.com/thindil/vim-ada https://github.com/thindil/vim-ada VSCode: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=AdaCore.ada https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=AdaCore....
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Enough people pay for Ada tooling, to keep 7 vendors feeding the families of their employees. https://www.adacore.com/ https://www.adacore.com/ https://www.ghs.com/products/ada_optimizing_compilers.html https://www.ghs.com/products/ada_optimizing_compilers.html https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer-tools/apexada https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer-tools/apexada https://www.ddci.com/products_score/ https://www.ddci.com/products_score/ http://www.irvine.com/tech.html http://www.irvine.com/tech.html http://www.ocsystems.com/w/index.php/OCS:PowerAda http://www.ocsystems.com/w/index.php/OCS:PowerAda http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/janus95/j-ada95.htm http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/janus95/j-ada95.htm VSCode, XCode, VS Community, Android Studio aren't free beer as such, the salaries of the teams come from Apple hardware, Windows and Azure licenses, Google Cloud and 30% app store,...
- onox 5y ago
  You can just do `apt install gnat` or `pacman -S gcc-ada` for free :)
- johnisgood 5y ago
  I have been using gps for ages, it is free.

deknos 5y ago

Please leave your echo chamber. Not everyone uses IDEs. And also it is not needed for a demo for embedded development

bsder 5y ago
> Please leave your echo chamber. Not everyone uses IDEs. You are so wrong about embedded development I don't know where to start. Trying to have a fully command-line development path requires you to actually fight with most chip manufacturers (this has finally gotten better in the last 5 years as basically everything has converged to ARM Cortex-M which is supported via official gcc releases from ARM). I can't think of anyone who developed for a PIC without MPLAB in the last 20 years (probably 30, but I'm being nice). Well, there are some people who didn't use MPLAB, but they used IAR or some other IDE. Keil is the standard for your ARM processor. Every manufacturer supports Keil first and then worries about whether you can use another IDE. The raw toolchain is almost never tested. Nordic forced you through Segger Embedded Studio but now has thrown in behind VSCode. Fortunately, you could generally peel out the pieces you needed for command line development. And the ones who didn't fall into those categories generally bodged some horror together using Eclipse. Even as far back as PowerPC and ColdFire people were using things like CodeWarrior. Command line things like Cygnus were not common. I would suggest you get out of the HN echo chamber and realize that the vast majority of software development is done on Windows where "pointy-clicky" is the rule and "command line" is anathema.
- rcxdude 5y ago
  Yup, the expectation from a huge portion of embedded developers is a complete package of tools where if it doesn't exist in the GUI, it doesn't exist. See here for an example of that attitude (relating to rust): https://www.reddit.com/r/embedded/comments/pwkr5w/writing_embedded_firmware_using_rust/hekiu7t/ https://www.reddit.com/r/embedded/comments/pwkr5w/writing_em... (I think this attitude is one of the ways/reasons that embedded is a bit of a ghetto in the software development world. It also makes it far more difficult to have a codebase which supports multiple platforms)
  - 5y ago