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I remember seeing this when I was a CS research intern working at a major Japanese company in Kawasaki back in 2010. I'm from America, and this was my first ti

I remember seeing this when I was a CS research intern working at a major Japanese company in Kawasaki back in 2010. I'm from America, and this was my first time in Japan. At the company, our workstations ran Windows XP; I guess the company refused upgrading to Vista, and Windows 7 was not yet approved. This article brought back two memories: 1. Learning how to code on a Japanese keyboard, where some of the symbols were in different locations, and where I needed to get used to having two small space bars instead of one single, long space bar. Eventually one of my coworkers introduced me to the Happy Hacking Keyboard (https://happyhackingkb.com https://happyhackingkb.com), which is popular among programmers in Japan due to its typing feel and the fact it has a version with a US-style keyboard layout. I stuck with that keyboard for the rest of my internship. 2. Seeing ¥n in my code instead of \n. Eventually I ended up installing a Linux virtual machine on my workstation that was localized to American English, though a big reason for this was because my internship project was writing a Linux kernel module. But I still needed to use my Japanese knowledge to use Microsoft Office and other programs on Windows. My eight months in Kawasaki were among the best in my life. Since then I've been to Japan six more times, and I'm looking forward to visiting Japan again once it's reopen to tourism.

makeitdouble 5y ago
Now that a significant number of programmers use Mac keyboard, I frequently see people go for the "International" layout that is available from every Apple stores() for all keyboard including laptops. It's pretty close to the US layout, with a bigger entry key and two more keys as a bonus. () in some store I think it's the "GB international". Also, it's such as shame all layouts aren't available from all countries, when in practice ordering a laptop means having it shipped from China anyway.
- gumby 5y ago
  I think it’s partially a local inventory issue but more importantly reduces the chance the customer will accidentally order the wrong thing, at the cost of making an unusual case more complicated.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    I wonder if beyond local inventory, there is a repair/support aspect to it. On the confusion part, I once went through phone support back and forth to get a BTO with a different keyboard. It didn't work, and I didn't get much info beyond shrugs. They basically tried to pass the order to the JP branch and it didn't pan out.
- glandium 5y ago
  There are significant differences in what's on shift+numbers. Like ( is on 8 and ) on 9. (IIRC they are on 9 and 0 on US keyboards) Other non alphabetical keys have different location too.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    No, you are describing several European layouts, but not those intended for English speakers The British, Irish and especially the "International" layout are close to the US layout.
    - glandium 5y ago
      I'm describing the Japanese layout.
- akg_67 5y ago
  I just ordered the new MBP with US Keyboard from Apple Store in Japan. Default is Japanese JIS keyboard. Drop down selection for keyboard also had other localities and language options.
- pcardoso 5y ago
  I use the normal Portuguese keyboards but with the US intl layout. Remnants from a time where my iBook g3 keyboard was US, and the Portuguese layout cost extra. I never got used to the Mac Portuguese layout either. Shortcut issues and some symbols in wrong places. Makes computers easier to resell locally when I upgrade.
jcun4128 5y ago
These are like those compact mech keyboards, always wonder what about the arrow keys I use a 68 myself with conventional arrow keys
- iCarrot 5y ago
  I'm on a 40% and my keymap is hold spacebar + wasd = arrows It becomes second nature after awhile. If you can shift+1 to type !, you can spacebar+w to go up a line.
- fleaaaa 5y ago
  Function + hjkl on 40% keyboard, with that I don't need to move my wrist. Sometimes it feels a bit lousy to use standard keyboard..
ninkendo 5y ago
I remember wanting to buy the Happy Hacker keyboard around 15 years ago or so, although I never did. I love this quote from their website: “Cowboys in the western United States leave their horses when they die. But never leave their saddles, regardless of how long they need to walk in the desert. Saddles are interfaces that are deeply adapted to our bodies whereas horses are consumable items. It should not be forgotten that computers are consumables nowadays, but keyboards are interfaces that we can use through our lives.” This resonates with me because I decided that I’d use a laptop-sized keyboard and trackpad for all my computing, even at my desk (which is 95% of the time nowadays.) The apple magic keyboard 2 (I think?) is nearly exactly the same size, layout, and key throw as the pre-2016 MacBook Pro scissor keyboards… and the Magic Trackpad does all the same gestures, etc. Which means I can switch to my laptop at any time and not have to re-adjust to different ergonomics, everything’s more or less the same. I just can’t wait for my M1 pro max to ship, because I can’t stand the butterfly keyboard having such a different key throw and I’ll be back to more or less parity again.
- 13of40 5y ago
  > laptop-sized keyboard Interesting - I actually switched to a small keyboard about a year ago because I was getting shoulder pain from my right arm hanging so far to the side so I could work the mouse. The smaller keyboard forces both of my arms closer to my body, and the chronic pain I had in my shoulder for a year or two has disappeared.
  - aikinai 5y ago
    I also use a small keyboard (Keychron K3) even on my desktop, but once in the past when I switched to a full-sized keyboard, I intentionally switched to left-hand mousing since the extra distance is only on the right side (with the numpad). I was also hoping the switch would help balance out my shoulders after years of right-hand mousing. It took a few days to get used to, but now I'm basically mouse/trackpad ambidextrous. I'm not sure if it helped my shoulder; I think maybe it did, but too many confounding factors.
  - 3np 5y ago
    Funny. I feel less strain and pain in neck and shoulders with a split keyboard compared to “normal” due to shoulders being more open. I guess it just goes to show our bodies are different and there’s no universal ergonomically optimal solution.
bntyhntr 5y ago
Oh man, I had a similar experience with the keyboard and a large Japanese company, but I just got used to it. Going back and forth between my laptop at the company dorm(!) and work was disorienting. Really liked being able to hit " without holding shift though. And I think @ was somewhere more reasonable? Too lazy to look it up right now but boy was that "fun". My memory's hazy, but I think my machine's language was set to en so at least I had normal backslashes.
cevn 5y ago
If you liked the HHKB you may like some of their other current offerings. My current KB is a Realforce TKL stealth black and it is awesome.
GoblinSlayer 5y ago
>Seeing ¥n in my code instead of \n. It's a feature of a font, it simply has ¥ glyph for the reverse solidus character. You should be able to get it back by using a different font.

makeitdouble 5y ago

Now that a significant number of programmers use Mac keyboard, I frequently see people go for the "International" layout that is available from every Apple stores() for all keyboard including laptops. It's pretty close to the US layout, with a bigger entry key and two more keys as a bonus. () in some store I think it's the "GB international". Also, it's such as shame all layouts aren't available from all countries, when in practice ordering a laptop means having it shipped from China anyway.

gumby 5y ago
I think it’s partially a local inventory issue but more importantly reduces the chance the customer will accidentally order the wrong thing, at the cost of making an unusual case more complicated.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  I wonder if beyond local inventory, there is a repair/support aspect to it. On the confusion part, I once went through phone support back and forth to get a BTO with a different keyboard. It didn't work, and I didn't get much info beyond shrugs. They basically tried to pass the order to the JP branch and it didn't pan out.
glandium 5y ago
There are significant differences in what's on shift+numbers. Like ( is on 8 and ) on 9. (IIRC they are on 9 and 0 on US keyboards) Other non alphabetical keys have different location too.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  No, you are describing several European layouts, but not those intended for English speakers The British, Irish and especially the "International" layout are close to the US layout.
  - glandium 5y ago
    I'm describing the Japanese layout.
akg_67 5y ago
I just ordered the new MBP with US Keyboard from Apple Store in Japan. Default is Japanese JIS keyboard. Drop down selection for keyboard also had other localities and language options.
pcardoso 5y ago
I use the normal Portuguese keyboards but with the US intl layout. Remnants from a time where my iBook g3 keyboard was US, and the Portuguese layout cost extra. I never got used to the Mac Portuguese layout either. Shortcut issues and some symbols in wrong places. Makes computers easier to resell locally when I upgrade.

jcun4128 5y ago

These are like those compact mech keyboards, always wonder what about the arrow keys I use a 68 myself with conventional arrow keys

iCarrot 5y ago
I'm on a 40% and my keymap is hold spacebar + wasd = arrows It becomes second nature after awhile. If you can shift+1 to type !, you can spacebar+w to go up a line.
fleaaaa 5y ago
Function + hjkl on 40% keyboard, with that I don't need to move my wrist. Sometimes it feels a bit lousy to use standard keyboard..

ninkendo 5y ago

I remember wanting to buy the Happy Hacker keyboard around 15 years ago or so, although I never did. I love this quote from their website: “Cowboys in the western United States leave their horses when they die. But never leave their saddles, regardless of how long they need to walk in the desert. Saddles are interfaces that are deeply adapted to our bodies whereas horses are consumable items. It should not be forgotten that computers are consumables nowadays, but keyboards are interfaces that we can use through our lives.” This resonates with me because I decided that I’d use a laptop-sized keyboard and trackpad for all my computing, even at my desk (which is 95% of the time nowadays.) The apple magic keyboard 2 (I think?) is nearly exactly the same size, layout, and key throw as the pre-2016 MacBook Pro scissor keyboards… and the Magic Trackpad does all the same gestures, etc. Which means I can switch to my laptop at any time and not have to re-adjust to different ergonomics, everything’s more or less the same. I just can’t wait for my M1 pro max to ship, because I can’t stand the butterfly keyboard having such a different key throw and I’ll be back to more or less parity again.

13of40 5y ago
> laptop-sized keyboard Interesting - I actually switched to a small keyboard about a year ago because I was getting shoulder pain from my right arm hanging so far to the side so I could work the mouse. The smaller keyboard forces both of my arms closer to my body, and the chronic pain I had in my shoulder for a year or two has disappeared.
- aikinai 5y ago
  I also use a small keyboard (Keychron K3) even on my desktop, but once in the past when I switched to a full-sized keyboard, I intentionally switched to left-hand mousing since the extra distance is only on the right side (with the numpad). I was also hoping the switch would help balance out my shoulders after years of right-hand mousing. It took a few days to get used to, but now I'm basically mouse/trackpad ambidextrous. I'm not sure if it helped my shoulder; I think maybe it did, but too many confounding factors.
- 3np 5y ago
  Funny. I feel less strain and pain in neck and shoulders with a split keyboard compared to “normal” due to shoulders being more open. I guess it just goes to show our bodies are different and there’s no universal ergonomically optimal solution.

bntyhntr 5y ago

Oh man, I had a similar experience with the keyboard and a large Japanese company, but I just got used to it. Going back and forth between my laptop at the company dorm(!) and work was disorienting. Really liked being able to hit " without holding shift though. And I think @ was somewhere more reasonable? Too lazy to look it up right now but boy was that "fun". My memory's hazy, but I think my machine's language was set to en so at least I had normal backslashes.

cevn 5y ago

If you liked the HHKB you may like some of their other current offerings. My current KB is a Realforce TKL stealth black and it is awesome.

GoblinSlayer 5y ago

>Seeing ¥n in my code instead of \n. It's a feature of a font, it simply has ¥ glyph for the reverse solidus character. You should be able to get it back by using a different font.