7 ms·

I can delete my FB, Google, Apple and Reddit data. Why not Hacker News?

20 points by headShrinker 5y ago

Simple quick question and I’m starting to wonder if this needs a legal explanation. Delete my comments and data Dang!

WalterGR 5y ago
See the FAQ linked at the bottom of the page.
- headShrinker 5y ago
  Listen pal, I don’t care about you or your reading comprehension, delete the comments and account.
version_five 5y ago
You can email hn@ycombinator.com and ask for them to be deleted. I'll see if I can find the source for this
- headShrinker 5y ago
  I did ask. They won’t.
  - version_five 5y ago
    Understood. You've probably seen this discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623799 It looks like they are willing to work with you to preserve your anonymity, but I'm guessing from your post that this process hasn't worked for you.
    - codingdave 5y ago
      OP here was also OP there. This looks like an issue clearly of concern to them, but there is some piece of the story we are missing if they repeat this question once a year or so while still participating on the site between asks.
      - version_five 5y ago
        Thanks I didn't see that. So this whole thread is dupe then.
        headShrinker 5y ago
        No. No it’s not a dupe. Just as if FB still hadn’t changed one of their boneheaded policies a year after it was raised as a concern the first time.
      - headShrinker 5y ago
        You aren’t missing anything. Everything is public and I am an open book about this situation. I’m a privacy advocate, I delete accounts on social media from time to time, just not on HN, thus the posts. I have chatted with dang, posted, and emailed HN.
authed 5y ago
What I do to mitigate the issue is switch account every few months... It means that I usually can't down-vote and flag post or comments, but it is worth it
- headShrinker 5y ago
  Bad solution to a bad problem caused by bad reasoning from bad administration.
  - authed 5y ago
    What better solution do you have? Cause I don't think you'll get Dang to change his mind
    - headShrinker 5y ago
      Dang’s mind is not the deciding factor here. The law is.
      - authed 5y ago
        you didn't answer my question
        headShrinker 5y ago
        My job is not to facilitate someone else’s needs and wants. The problem here is a lack of a delete button. That is primus here. I don’t have to answer your question. You have to answer mine.
        authed 5y ago
        There is a delete button, but it doesn't last long
        headShrinker 5y ago
neximo64 5y ago
Why should they? The comments are handy years on. Use a pseudonym?
- headShrinker 5y ago
  If my comments are not handy, delete them. If they are handy then I deserve compensation. If I created it I can destroy it. If I created it and was not compensated then I maintain ownership and copyright control. Delete them now! This has been fought in courts and won.
  - newaccount2021 5y ago
    You gave away your comment text of your own will, you are owed nothing And what damages will you seek? There are no ads here
  - scantis 5y ago
    Most HN users are circumventing copyright restriction and paywalls to make content available to a wider audience. Weirdly enough they draw the line with citations, this is why so many projects are attributed to weird internet nicks. Usually doxxing those nicks wouldn't result in financial compensation, but lots of legal trouble. What you want is fringe and confusion to me, especially in this context. You control your nick and your comments are attributed to it. If somebody else uses your comments for something useful, they can cite your nick.
    - headShrinker 5y ago
      Irrelevant to our concerns here. What other people do with other information is not my concern. What HN does with my information is of direct concern and legal consequence.
  - drdeca 5y ago
    The legal notes at https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/#tou https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/#tou say "By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content for any Y Combinator-related purpose in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed. " . If you do not wish your User Content to be displayed, I recommend that you do not upload it to the site. [disclaimer to avoid any possible appearance of pretending to be affiliated with the site in any way beyond just being a user of it, goes here]
dang 5y ago
HN's approach hasn't changed since the last time you brought this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23622865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23622865. Sending aggressive emails to other departments at YC isn't going to make it change, and neither is posting metathreads to HN. For users who might not know about the approach we take—here's a typical response I send to emails: HN doesn't remove entire account histories, because that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which would be unfair to the other users in those threads. But we can randomize the username and disable the account if you'd like. We also often delete or redact specific posts that users are worried about. If that would help, send us links and we'll take a look. We don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN. The reason for this approach is that deletion is a complex issue with tradeoffs between competing interests: individual interest in privacy, other commenters' interest in having their posts remain intelligible, the community's interest in having its archive preserved. There are no perfect solutions, so a line has to be drawn somewhere. One reason why I say there are no perfect solutions is that there are copies of the HN archives all over the internet. We don't control those, so a determined attacker wouldn't find it hard to get around any deletion we do, even if we deleted everything. Since there's no way to satisfy all concerns nor to provide perfect protection, it's all about where to draw the line in the solution space, knowing that any line we draw is going to leave something unsatisfied. The way we draw the line–no wholesale deletion, but specific deletion/redaction along with username randomization—has so far held up as a good compromise over the years. It goes back many years: pg wrote about it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226, and if you read deeper in that thread you'll see that he agreed with username randomization as the key missing piece. We added that some years later. Until new information shows up that changes the landscape significantly, I think it makes sense to stick with it. We care a lot about meeting users' concerns for protection and we take care of these requests literally every day—we just try to do it with more precise tools than wholesale deletion. It's rare for anyone to go away unhappy—certainly 99%, probably 99.9% are satisfied with how we respond. Those that do go away unhappy tend either to express their concerns rather theoretically (as a philosophical argument rather than something specific they need) or to be mad about something we did on the site (perhaps understandably, but that's not necessarily a reason to change this policy).
- 5y ago
HNyes 5y ago
You need to look into the Streisand Effect.

20 points by headShrinker 5y ago

Simple quick question and I’m starting to wonder if this needs a legal explanation. Delete my comments and data Dang!

WalterGR 5y ago

See the FAQ linked at the bottom of the page.

headShrinker 5y ago
Listen pal, I don’t care about you or your reading comprehension, delete the comments and account.

version_five 5y ago

You can email hn@ycombinator.com and ask for them to be deleted. I'll see if I can find the source for this

headShrinker 5y ago
I did ask. They won’t.
- version_five 5y ago
  Understood. You've probably seen this discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623799 It looks like they are willing to work with you to preserve your anonymity, but I'm guessing from your post that this process hasn't worked for you.
  - codingdave 5y ago
    OP here was also OP there. This looks like an issue clearly of concern to them, but there is some piece of the story we are missing if they repeat this question once a year or so while still participating on the site between asks.
    - version_five 5y ago
      Thanks I didn't see that. So this whole thread is dupe then.
      - headShrinker 5y ago
        No. No it’s not a dupe. Just as if FB still hadn’t changed one of their boneheaded policies a year after it was raised as a concern the first time.
    - headShrinker 5y ago
      You aren’t missing anything. Everything is public and I am an open book about this situation. I’m a privacy advocate, I delete accounts on social media from time to time, just not on HN, thus the posts. I have chatted with dang, posted, and emailed HN.

authed 5y ago

What I do to mitigate the issue is switch account every few months... It means that I usually can't down-vote and flag post or comments, but it is worth it

headShrinker 5y ago
Bad solution to a bad problem caused by bad reasoning from bad administration.
- authed 5y ago
  What better solution do you have? Cause I don't think you'll get Dang to change his mind
  - headShrinker 5y ago
    Dang’s mind is not the deciding factor here. The law is.
    - authed 5y ago
      you didn't answer my question
      - headShrinker 5y ago
        My job is not to facilitate someone else’s needs and wants. The problem here is a lack of a delete button. That is primus here. I don’t have to answer your question. You have to answer mine.
        authed 5y ago
        There is a delete button, but it doesn't last long
        headShrinker 5y ago

neximo64 5y ago

Why should they? The comments are handy years on. Use a pseudonym?

headShrinker 5y ago
If my comments are not handy, delete them. If they are handy then I deserve compensation. If I created it I can destroy it. If I created it and was not compensated then I maintain ownership and copyright control. Delete them now! This has been fought in courts and won.
- newaccount2021 5y ago
  You gave away your comment text of your own will, you are owed nothing And what damages will you seek? There are no ads here
- scantis 5y ago
  Most HN users are circumventing copyright restriction and paywalls to make content available to a wider audience. Weirdly enough they draw the line with citations, this is why so many projects are attributed to weird internet nicks. Usually doxxing those nicks wouldn't result in financial compensation, but lots of legal trouble. What you want is fringe and confusion to me, especially in this context. You control your nick and your comments are attributed to it. If somebody else uses your comments for something useful, they can cite your nick.
  - headShrinker 5y ago
    Irrelevant to our concerns here. What other people do with other information is not my concern. What HN does with my information is of direct concern and legal consequence.
- drdeca 5y ago
  The legal notes at https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/#tou https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/#tou say "By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content for any Y Combinator-related purpose in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed. " . If you do not wish your User Content to be displayed, I recommend that you do not upload it to the site. [disclaimer to avoid any possible appearance of pretending to be affiliated with the site in any way beyond just being a user of it, goes here]

dang 5y ago

HN's approach hasn't changed since the last time you brought this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23622865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23622865. Sending aggressive emails to other departments at YC isn't going to make it change, and neither is posting metathreads to HN. For users who might not know about the approach we take—here's a typical response I send to emails: HN doesn't remove entire account histories, because that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which would be unfair to the other users in those threads. But we can randomize the username and disable the account if you'd like. We also often delete or redact specific posts that users are worried about. If that would help, send us links and we'll take a look. We don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN. The reason for this approach is that deletion is a complex issue with tradeoffs between competing interests: individual interest in privacy, other commenters' interest in having their posts remain intelligible, the community's interest in having its archive preserved. There are no perfect solutions, so a line has to be drawn somewhere. One reason why I say there are no perfect solutions is that there are copies of the HN archives all over the internet. We don't control those, so a determined attacker wouldn't find it hard to get around any deletion we do, even if we deleted everything. Since there's no way to satisfy all concerns nor to provide perfect protection, it's all about where to draw the line in the solution space, knowing that any line we draw is going to leave something unsatisfied. The way we draw the line–no wholesale deletion, but specific deletion/redaction along with username randomization—has so far held up as a good compromise over the years. It goes back many years: pg wrote about it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226, and if you read deeper in that thread you'll see that he agreed with username randomization as the key missing piece. We added that some years later. Until new information shows up that changes the landscape significantly, I think it makes sense to stick with it. We care a lot about meeting users' concerns for protection and we take care of these requests literally every day—we just try to do it with more precise tools than wholesale deletion. It's rare for anyone to go away unhappy—certainly 99%, probably 99.9% are satisfied with how we respond. Those that do go away unhappy tend either to express their concerns rather theoretically (as a philosophical argument rather than something specific they need) or to be mad about something we did on the site (perhaps understandably, but that's not necessarily a reason to change this policy).

5y ago

HNyes 5y ago

You need to look into the Streisand Effect.