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Maintainability is always the issue, even for the things made from code. What do you think will happen if the no-code platforms become open source?

ethbr0 5y ago
Every general no code platform I've worked with has had an order of magnitude (sometimes, multiple) worse maintainability story than code alternatives. And admittedly, maybe I've worked with a series of terrible ones, but I've also worked with a lot of popular ones that big enterprises are adopting. As for open source, I'd say zero percent chance that happens, because no code solves problems developers don't have: (1) I want to write code, but I don't know how to code & (2) I need to integrate a lot of really boring, legacy, usually-Windows apps. It's the "Why are there no polished open source desktop environments?" problem from the 90s, multiplied by ten. Which I think is why you see what open source no-code tools do exist focus on web, because that's closer to what their developers are curious about.
- krishvs 5y ago
  Based on your experience would you be comfortable to list a few of the no-code tools to avoid when taking maintainability into account? Would be useful.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Names seems a bit specific, but it's easy enough to think in terms of basic software hygiene practices: things we expect our languages and their ecosystems to provide in traditional code these days. Is the "code" serialized to a text readable format, for storage and parsing by other tools? Can I get a copy of that serialization? Can I regenerate the effective program from that serialization? Are there methods for appropriate modularization and encapsulation? Is there a coherent versioning strategy that allows for controlled updates, down through dependencies? Can I check it into standard source control? And does it play nice with the expectations therein? Basically: everything you were taught in undergrad for software engineering & at your first job The biggest problem with the industry is that it's being sold to people who know none of that, or they're being told that doesn't really matter here, because this isn't code and thus doesn't need all that.
jcpst 5y ago
People who have maintained these systems know the level of pain is much worse than nearly any codebase. No code solutions that end up mission-critical can stay active for decades. We have solutions from the 90s that, thank the heavens, I don’t have to work on them. If I did I would probably quit. But the business has to keep the thing chugging along, and it’s _very hard_ to get out of.

ethbr0 5y ago

Every general no code platform I've worked with has had an order of magnitude (sometimes, multiple) worse maintainability story than code alternatives. And admittedly, maybe I've worked with a series of terrible ones, but I've also worked with a lot of popular ones that big enterprises are adopting. As for open source, I'd say zero percent chance that happens, because no code solves problems developers don't have: (1) I want to write code, but I don't know how to code & (2) I need to integrate a lot of really boring, legacy, usually-Windows apps. It's the "Why are there no polished open source desktop environments?" problem from the 90s, multiplied by ten. Which I think is why you see what open source no-code tools do exist focus on web, because that's closer to what their developers are curious about.

krishvs 5y ago
Based on your experience would you be comfortable to list a few of the no-code tools to avoid when taking maintainability into account? Would be useful.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Names seems a bit specific, but it's easy enough to think in terms of basic software hygiene practices: things we expect our languages and their ecosystems to provide in traditional code these days. Is the "code" serialized to a text readable format, for storage and parsing by other tools? Can I get a copy of that serialization? Can I regenerate the effective program from that serialization? Are there methods for appropriate modularization and encapsulation? Is there a coherent versioning strategy that allows for controlled updates, down through dependencies? Can I check it into standard source control? And does it play nice with the expectations therein? Basically: everything you were taught in undergrad for software engineering & at your first job The biggest problem with the industry is that it's being sold to people who know none of that, or they're being told that doesn't really matter here, because this isn't code and thus doesn't need all that.

jcpst 5y ago

People who have maintained these systems know the level of pain is much worse than nearly any codebase. No code solutions that end up mission-critical can stay active for decades. We have solutions from the 90s that, thank the heavens, I don’t have to work on them. If I did I would probably quit. But the business has to keep the thing chugging along, and it’s _very hard_ to get out of.