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You shall not pinch to zoom: Rittenhouse trial judge disallows basic iPad

26 points by feross 5y ago

h2odragon 5y ago
"does an iPad use interpolation on image zoom?" seems like a pretty easy question for a technical publication to answer, doesn't it? Like perhaps they have someone at Apple who could answer that question if they asked it, and then pass that answer on to their readers?
- wmf 5y ago
  I have a feeling none of this is about facts.
  - hajile 5y ago
    Of course not. For that image to be what the prosecution says, Rittenhouse would be walking around with the gun in his right hand. He'd then have to switch to his left hand without being seen on video (not a small change) for this one instance and then switch back to his right hand for the rest of the video.
new_guy 5y ago
Regardless of the politics of this case, I think it's time for anyone involved in public office to have basic tech literacy or be removed. These people can barely switch a light on and they're making pronouncements affecting people's lives ( see also: https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/15/f12-isnt-hacking-missouri-governor-threatens-to-prosecute-local-journalist-for-finding-exposed-state-data/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/15/f12-isnt-hacking-missouri-... )
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > Regardless of the politics of this case, I think it's time for anyone involved in public office to have basic tech literacy or be removed Everyone says this about their industry or area of expertise, the most common being technical (tech) and financial literacy (finance) plus something out of the grab bag of biology, foreign policy, military strategy and developmental psychology.
  - codezero 5y ago
    That’s not asking too much imho :)
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    And we need the development of a "non-doctrinal" discipline of "good sense", which was normally built on proficiency and expertise in other domains but seems today immensely urgent as a direct topic. One may think "logic", but it is much more subtle than that (especially in times in which also the clumsy use of logic-related instruments is widespread).
_0ffh 5y ago
To be fair, there is already magnification technology based on DNNs out there that actually does fill in details that are not present in the original picture. I just doubt very much that it's implemented like that on the iPad, especially not for video.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  For the purposes of the court, simple mathematical interpolation is enough (IMO) to say that the algorithm is "creating pixels" and the resulting image is not of the same evidentiary quality and veracity as the original.
  - cardiffspaceman 5y ago
    Isn't then the common practice of drawing circles on photos in evidence or putting callout arrows on photos in evidence creating something that isn't there and a distortion? I feel that the judge and prosecutor are aligned in a plan to deny justice and this "I don't see it"/"don't pinch" stuff is just a form of big lies.
    - h2odragon 5y ago
      The circle is obvious and not purported to be part of the original. The interpolated grey pixel between black and white pixels is inferred but might've been any value had we more resolution in the original. If we're just making dots bigger then that should be easy to establish.
djanogo 5y ago
Having watched the trial they had very good reason to disallow this, the enlargement in this case was of critical importance (angle of gun) and the expert testified how different algorithms might fill in pixels, he explained how bicubic interpolation[1] based enlargement of a frame from a video which was taken by zooming in an iphone. The video in question was taken from far, in night time, with shadows, and street lights. [1]Expert Testimonty - https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=20976 https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=20976 [2]Image being enlarged - https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=22814 https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=22814

26 points by feross 5y ago

"does an iPad use interpolation on image zoom?" seems like a pretty easy question for a technical publication to answer, doesn't it? Like perhaps they have someone at Apple who could answer that question if they asked it, and then pass that answer on to their readers?

wmf 5y ago
I have a feeling none of this is about facts.
- hajile 5y ago
  Of course not. For that image to be what the prosecution says, Rittenhouse would be walking around with the gun in his right hand. He'd then have to switch to his left hand without being seen on video (not a small change) for this one instance and then switch back to his right hand for the rest of the video.

new_guy 5y ago

Regardless of the politics of this case, I think it's time for anyone involved in public office to have basic tech literacy or be removed. These people can barely switch a light on and they're making pronouncements affecting people's lives ( see also: https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/15/f12-isnt-hacking-missouri-governor-threatens-to-prosecute-local-journalist-for-finding-exposed-state-data/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/15/f12-isnt-hacking-missouri-... )

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> Regardless of the politics of this case, I think it's time for anyone involved in public office to have basic tech literacy or be removed Everyone says this about their industry or area of expertise, the most common being technical (tech) and financial literacy (finance) plus something out of the grab bag of biology, foreign policy, military strategy and developmental psychology.
- codezero 5y ago
  That’s not asking too much imho :)
- mdp2021 5y ago
  And we need the development of a "non-doctrinal" discipline of "good sense", which was normally built on proficiency and expertise in other domains but seems today immensely urgent as a direct topic. One may think "logic", but it is much more subtle than that (especially in times in which also the clumsy use of logic-related instruments is widespread).

_0ffh 5y ago

To be fair, there is already magnification technology based on DNNs out there that actually does fill in details that are not present in the original picture. I just doubt very much that it's implemented like that on the iPad, especially not for video.

h2odragon 5y ago
For the purposes of the court, simple mathematical interpolation is enough (IMO) to say that the algorithm is "creating pixels" and the resulting image is not of the same evidentiary quality and veracity as the original.
- cardiffspaceman 5y ago
  Isn't then the common practice of drawing circles on photos in evidence or putting callout arrows on photos in evidence creating something that isn't there and a distortion? I feel that the judge and prosecutor are aligned in a plan to deny justice and this "I don't see it"/"don't pinch" stuff is just a form of big lies.
  - h2odragon 5y ago
    The circle is obvious and not purported to be part of the original. The interpolated grey pixel between black and white pixels is inferred but might've been any value had we more resolution in the original. If we're just making dots bigger then that should be easy to establish.

djanogo 5y ago

Having watched the trial they had very good reason to disallow this, the enlargement in this case was of critical importance (angle of gun) and the expert testified how different algorithms might fill in pixels, he explained how bicubic interpolation[1] based enlargement of a frame from a video which was taken by zooming in an iphone. The video in question was taken from far, in night time, with shadows, and street lights. [1]Expert Testimonty - https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=20976 https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=20976 [2]Image being enlarged - https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=22814 https://youtu.be/pyppmuFxwKk?t=22814