5 ms·

This data is interesting because it illustrates how few chronic homeless people there are, and yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations wil

by rp1 5y ago

This data is interesting because it illustrates how few chronic homeless people there are, and yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. This tiny portion of the population has an outsized impact on everyone else. For this reason, among others, society should find some help for these people.

crowbahr 5y ago
> In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride I've ridden with homeless in the same car as me plenty of times and only occasionally will they be disruptive. I'm far more irked with showtime than with the occasional sleeping down-on-his-luck guy.
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  Not sure what your meaning of disruptive is but I would define "ruins the entire ride" as making the entire car smell like urine and feces. I've also gotten on buses where it is plainly apparent someone peed on the bus floor.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    I'm sure you can find a few anecdotal counter examples but generally speaking people don't behave that way on the east coast, homeless or not. And when they do it's more likely to be a drunk on game day than a homeless person.
    - b9a2cab5 5y ago
      Sounds like I need to move to the East Coast because that's the experience I get half the time I get on a bus or BART in the Bay.
      - vanilla_nut 5y ago
        As a former NYC resident: I experienced this a hell of a lot, riding the subway multiple times per day. Worse when I rode the 6, but it’s bad on all lines. Not sure what world this person lives in where they don’t experience that as much as I did just a couple of years ago.
noahtallen 5y ago
Definitely. As an example, say you walk in your neighborhood to the transit station. A single encounter with someone with a mental health issue will be enough to give you the impression that things are worse than they are. One isolated instance of feeling unsafe had an outsized impact on how you feel about the neighborhood in general. It’s just human! And unfortunately, in west coast cities, it’s not even that isolated. If there is a camp near-ish your neighborhood for some time, there will be a lot of instances. And as you go into the city, the more dense “downtown” parts are areas where people might not live all the time, but a lot of different people do experience them frequently, and a lot of homeless people may be there too. So thousands of people might get a subconscious feeling of being unsafe, just from a small number of people who might not even be acting in unsafe ways. That’s why people see it as a crisis: a lot of people in west coast cities feel increasingly unsafe. That’s partly founded (because violent crimes are increasing), and partly unfounded (just someone’s impression of a different person they aren’t comfortable around). So there is a huge emotional response.
- s5300 5y ago
  Personal anecdata is most definitely an issue, and a very hard one to solve. For example - the greater LA metro area has roughly 19 million people (as of 2019 believe it's higher now) 19 million people is the equivalent of the populations of the 13 lowest population states. Including for example, South Dakota. The last time I looked into this, roughly a year ago (and at 2019 numbers) the entire state of South Dakota has the same amount of crime as Los Angeles. However, the entire state of South Dakota is roughly 1/20th the population of Los Angeles. We also have decades of data showing that people who grew up in or have lived large metropolises are at roughly 20%-25% greater disposition to severe mental illness such as schizophrenia. Simply for living in that environment. So, that being said - I think somewhere like Los Angeles is doing pretty damn good for itself. It's an undeniably slightly crazy place to be living or growing up in, and their general crime levels are only at the level of a place with 1/20th of it's population, that is much less dense. In my eyes, it seems like a place with less population density would be less prone to crime. Most people don't take any amount of time to become aware of information like this though... thus we get nowhere in solving issues.
- 5y ago
whimsicalism 5y ago
> a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. i think it's more a person with one of a specific subset of mental illnesses that can ruin the whole ride. not sure what the solution to that is.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. I dunno man. I've ridden Boston and DC light rail systems pretty extensively (and NYC to a small extent) and never had an obviously homeless person ruin my ride. Heck, I can't even think of a specific instance where one did anything of note. My coworkers on the West coast however...
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  DC does not have a light rail system outside of the small H street project. I grew up in DC and a classmate of mine murdered somebody on the Metro, so it is certainly not all smiles and roses. I agree it is much worse on the West coast.
- rp1 5y ago
  Just ask anyone in NYC if this is familiar: “Excuse me everyone. I’m sorry to bother you. My name is Mark and I’m homeless. I’m between jobs right now and I have two kids. If anyone could spare a few cents or even a dollar, then I would really appreciate it. God bless you.” Happened multiple times a day on my commute.
  - pgcj_poster 5y ago
    And that was enough to ruin your entire ride?
    - ianhawes 5y ago
      Not parent, but I’ve been approached by homeless people plenty of times and most of the time they’re just ready to move onto the next mark if you decline to assist them, but occasionally they will accost you for your perceived lack of empathy. The situations can be tense and make you feel uncomfortable. So yes, bring approached by a homeless person would definitely ruin a commute.
      - 5y ago
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
They should be punished for not taking the social service avenues intended to make them not homeless.

by rp1 5y ago

crowbahr 5y ago

> In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride I've ridden with homeless in the same car as me plenty of times and only occasionally will they be disruptive. I'm far more irked with showtime than with the occasional sleeping down-on-his-luck guy.

b9a2cab5 5y ago
Not sure what your meaning of disruptive is but I would define "ruins the entire ride" as making the entire car smell like urine and feces. I've also gotten on buses where it is plainly apparent someone peed on the bus floor.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  I'm sure you can find a few anecdotal counter examples but generally speaking people don't behave that way on the east coast, homeless or not. And when they do it's more likely to be a drunk on game day than a homeless person.
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    Sounds like I need to move to the East Coast because that's the experience I get half the time I get on a bus or BART in the Bay.
    - vanilla_nut 5y ago
      As a former NYC resident: I experienced this a hell of a lot, riding the subway multiple times per day. Worse when I rode the 6, but it’s bad on all lines. Not sure what world this person lives in where they don’t experience that as much as I did just a couple of years ago.

noahtallen 5y ago

Definitely. As an example, say you walk in your neighborhood to the transit station. A single encounter with someone with a mental health issue will be enough to give you the impression that things are worse than they are. One isolated instance of feeling unsafe had an outsized impact on how you feel about the neighborhood in general. It’s just human! And unfortunately, in west coast cities, it’s not even that isolated. If there is a camp near-ish your neighborhood for some time, there will be a lot of instances. And as you go into the city, the more dense “downtown” parts are areas where people might not live all the time, but a lot of different people do experience them frequently, and a lot of homeless people may be there too. So thousands of people might get a subconscious feeling of being unsafe, just from a small number of people who might not even be acting in unsafe ways. That’s why people see it as a crisis: a lot of people in west coast cities feel increasingly unsafe. That’s partly founded (because violent crimes are increasing), and partly unfounded (just someone’s impression of a different person they aren’t comfortable around). So there is a huge emotional response.

s5300 5y ago
Personal anecdata is most definitely an issue, and a very hard one to solve. For example - the greater LA metro area has roughly 19 million people (as of 2019 believe it's higher now) 19 million people is the equivalent of the populations of the 13 lowest population states. Including for example, South Dakota. The last time I looked into this, roughly a year ago (and at 2019 numbers) the entire state of South Dakota has the same amount of crime as Los Angeles. However, the entire state of South Dakota is roughly 1/20th the population of Los Angeles. We also have decades of data showing that people who grew up in or have lived large metropolises are at roughly 20%-25% greater disposition to severe mental illness such as schizophrenia. Simply for living in that environment. So, that being said - I think somewhere like Los Angeles is doing pretty damn good for itself. It's an undeniably slightly crazy place to be living or growing up in, and their general crime levels are only at the level of a place with 1/20th of it's population, that is much less dense. In my eyes, it seems like a place with less population density would be less prone to crime. Most people don't take any amount of time to become aware of information like this though... thus we get nowhere in solving issues.
5y ago

whimsicalism 5y ago

> a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. i think it's more a person with one of a specific subset of mental illnesses that can ruin the whole ride. not sure what the solution to that is.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>yet people who live in cities with large homeless populations will tell you how disruptive they can be. In NYC, a homeless person getting in your subway car ruins the entire ride. I dunno man. I've ridden Boston and DC light rail systems pretty extensively (and NYC to a small extent) and never had an obviously homeless person ruin my ride. Heck, I can't even think of a specific instance where one did anything of note. My coworkers on the West coast however...

whimsicalism 5y ago
DC does not have a light rail system outside of the small H street project. I grew up in DC and a classmate of mine murdered somebody on the Metro, so it is certainly not all smiles and roses. I agree it is much worse on the West coast.
rp1 5y ago
Just ask anyone in NYC if this is familiar: “Excuse me everyone. I’m sorry to bother you. My name is Mark and I’m homeless. I’m between jobs right now and I have two kids. If anyone could spare a few cents or even a dollar, then I would really appreciate it. God bless you.” Happened multiple times a day on my commute.
- pgcj_poster 5y ago
  And that was enough to ruin your entire ride?
  - ianhawes 5y ago
    Not parent, but I’ve been approached by homeless people plenty of times and most of the time they’re just ready to move onto the next mark if you decline to assist them, but occasionally they will accost you for your perceived lack of empathy. The situations can be tense and make you feel uncomfortable. So yes, bring approached by a homeless person would definitely ruin a commute.
    - 5y ago

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

They should be punished for not taking the social service avenues intended to make them not homeless.