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Simple. Think big. He valued it enough to know about naval problems to know its huge value, and wasn’t unfair and left the silk washer whole. The silk seller’s

Simple. Think big. He valued it enough to know about naval problems to know its huge value, and wasn’t unfair and left the silk washer whole. The silk seller’s motivation out of poverty was noted, solved by the traveler and not unfairly so he was “bought” and cooperated fully with what was a great deal for him, which lubricates away resentment, half effort, and unhappiness because giving a good deal to someone is similar to “buy once, cry once”. Negotiating costs time, energy, and paying less might not yield the full secret especially if the seller feels taken advantage of so he also will do his best not to cooperate. Imagine if Steve Jobs paid Woz half the profits with what he knew.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
That's not my point. My point is that the story element has no purpose. The entire transaction is entirely irrelevant. The wisdom of thinking of alternative use cases could have been conveyed with the traveler simply being clever and identifying the use case thinking outside the box without the part where he buys it for an outrageous amount of gold. The silk washer has no ability to even make use of the knowledge that the ointment has other potential applications or that it could be very valuable. It seems like a distracting element of the story. If the dynamic of "don't try to rip people off when you have an informational advantage" was the point, it should have shown a consequence for doing so. As it stands, I see no reason why he shouldn't have offered 1 cattie of gold instead of 100. Normal western storytelling would either * Show the consequences of an action * Have the character recall specific advice on the right thing to do; or reason through it; and then benefit In this case a choice was made and it was fine-ish. But given we don't know how wealthy the traveler was, we're left to wonder if he was either: * banking his entire net worth on this ointment * saying "it's one ointment, silk guy. What could it cost, 100 catties of gold?" with a certain opulent flair.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I think you should consider that your position might be interpreted as racist or implying western superiority in storytelling, it’s an old story that might not be succinct enough to you but you’re not familiar or xenophobic against foreign ideas and presentation, he’s known for poetry and wordplay. If you don’t like it, consider it’s age and why it’s still relevant and referenced today. I have no idea what a cattie is but 100 pieces of gold sounds like a lot. Remember the South Park animation of Allan Watts? Why bother with a story? It’s also entertaining especially in that era to hear epics like Gilgamesh with what you might consider too much irrelevance. You’re thinking of a subset of western storytelling, they’re not all styled like Marcus Aurelius, Shakespeare is more widely read despite it being a play, being unclear enough to need translations on the margins, and footnotes at the end. This is the similar to comparing the Old Testament with the 10 commandments and explaining why we should really change it because it didn’t conform to our personal sensibilities.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    There's nothing racist or supremacist about observing how an old chinese story differs from western storytelling norms. I did not say it's worse. Nor do I have any reason to believe its representative of its peers. I said there's a lot of emphasis on a tangent that doesn't lead anywhere, which is particularly unusual for a short tale like this, which was presumably intended to carry a lesson to impart. I've no interest in debating whether you perceive my perception to be perceivable as racist though.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      >how an old chinese story differs from western storytelling norms What norms? Who set them if anyone has at all? Is the Bible not the bedrock of Westen civilization? Is it perfectly clear in its ideas and lack emphasis on tangents that doesn't lead anywhere?

spywaregorilla 5y ago

That's not my point. My point is that the story element has no purpose. The entire transaction is entirely irrelevant. The wisdom of thinking of alternative use cases could have been conveyed with the traveler simply being clever and identifying the use case thinking outside the box without the part where he buys it for an outrageous amount of gold. The silk washer has no ability to even make use of the knowledge that the ointment has other potential applications or that it could be very valuable. It seems like a distracting element of the story. If the dynamic of "don't try to rip people off when you have an informational advantage" was the point, it should have shown a consequence for doing so. As it stands, I see no reason why he shouldn't have offered 1 cattie of gold instead of 100. Normal western storytelling would either * Show the consequences of an action * Have the character recall specific advice on the right thing to do; or reason through it; and then benefit In this case a choice was made and it was fine-ish. But given we don't know how wealthy the traveler was, we're left to wonder if he was either: * banking his entire net worth on this ointment * saying "it's one ointment, silk guy. What could it cost, 100 catties of gold?" with a certain opulent flair.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
I think you should consider that your position might be interpreted as racist or implying western superiority in storytelling, it’s an old story that might not be succinct enough to you but you’re not familiar or xenophobic against foreign ideas and presentation, he’s known for poetry and wordplay. If you don’t like it, consider it’s age and why it’s still relevant and referenced today. I have no idea what a cattie is but 100 pieces of gold sounds like a lot. Remember the South Park animation of Allan Watts? Why bother with a story? It’s also entertaining especially in that era to hear epics like Gilgamesh with what you might consider too much irrelevance. You’re thinking of a subset of western storytelling, they’re not all styled like Marcus Aurelius, Shakespeare is more widely read despite it being a play, being unclear enough to need translations on the margins, and footnotes at the end. This is the similar to comparing the Old Testament with the 10 commandments and explaining why we should really change it because it didn’t conform to our personal sensibilities.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  There's nothing racist or supremacist about observing how an old chinese story differs from western storytelling norms. I did not say it's worse. Nor do I have any reason to believe its representative of its peers. I said there's a lot of emphasis on a tangent that doesn't lead anywhere, which is particularly unusual for a short tale like this, which was presumably intended to carry a lesson to impart. I've no interest in debating whether you perceive my perception to be perceivable as racist though.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    >how an old chinese story differs from western storytelling norms What norms? Who set them if anyone has at all? Is the Bible not the bedrock of Westen civilization? Is it perfectly clear in its ideas and lack emphasis on tangents that doesn't lead anywhere?