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I agree that it's more convenient, generally less time wasted in security theater and enforced shopping experience. That said, at least when you get on an airp

I agree that it's more convenient, generally less time wasted in security theater and enforced shopping experience. That said, at least when you get on an airplane and it leaves the gate you have a pretty decent chance of making it to your destination when you expect to. Certainly with British trains it feels like your chance of arriving on time (to 15 minutes or so) are about 50/50.

pmyteh 5y ago
Actually >90% within 10 mins (long distance) or 5 mins (short). [0] Very dependent on what route you take, though. And far from Swiss or Japanese levels of punctuality. [0]: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/how-we-work/performance/railway-performance/public-performance-measure-and-delay-responsibility/ https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/how-we-work/perform...
- VBprogrammer 5y ago
  Yeah, lies damn lies and statistics and all that. I'm sure the majority of journeys aren't long distance journeys you'd otherwise replace with flight. Certainly 50/50 was a bit of a exaggeration but when I regularly traveled between Glasgow/Edinburgh and London it wasn't far off. I received a lot of vouchers for free travel.
  - pmyteh 5y ago
    It's a National Statistic (subject to auditing and rigorous oversight from the ONS) so 'lies' is way off the mark. What it may do is not match your experiences (it varies a lot by time of day etc.), or be perfectly defined for the replacing-flights question. Both LNER (east coast) and Avanti (west coast) are fairly ordinary in long-distance terms. If the question was, say, Exeter to Newcastle by Cross Country I'd expect more extensive delays. Anyway, you can explore the data (including breakdowns by quarter, by long distance vs commuter, and by operating company).[0] [0]: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/performance/passenger-rail-performance/table-3114-public-performance-measure-by-operator-and-sector-periodic/ https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/performance/passeng...
    - Someone 5y ago
      > it varies a lot by time of day etc. That _may_ explain the difference. The officially reported percentage is per train, not per passenger. Passenger onboarding can cause delays (for example, a rural station may, some days, have a school class enter a train. If you make room for that in the schedule, customers will ask why you stop for 5 minutes. If you don’t, the train will be late at its next stop, if that’s only a few kilometers away), so chances are trains with fewer passengers are more punctual. If so, the per passenger percentage of on time trains will be lower. It also is measured only at final destinations. That percentage almost certainly is higher than that measured at each stop (a train that’s late half-way through can try to make up for lost time, but it can’t make up for being late at stops it already had) Finally, there the question how cancelled trains are measured. Possibly, they aren’t counted as late, but do delay passengers.
sdoering 5y ago
There was this really great talk on the Chaos Communication Congress some time back on the punctuality of German trains. I searched for it and even found the English voice over translation [1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGCmPLWZKd8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGCmPLWZKd8
elygre 5y ago
Remember to add time waiting for luggage. In Frankfurt today, it took 45 minutes from touch down until luggage arrived.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Big luggage that would be checked on planes is often a pain to handle on trains though. Especially if they're busy and there's really nowhere to put them. I'd actually be inclined to argue that dealing with larger luggage, whatever delays in baggage pickup there is, is easier on planes than most trains.

pmyteh 5y ago

Actually >90% within 10 mins (long distance) or 5 mins (short). [0] Very dependent on what route you take, though. And far from Swiss or Japanese levels of punctuality. [0]: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/how-we-work/performance/railway-performance/public-performance-measure-and-delay-responsibility/ https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/how-we-work/perform...

VBprogrammer 5y ago
Yeah, lies damn lies and statistics and all that. I'm sure the majority of journeys aren't long distance journeys you'd otherwise replace with flight. Certainly 50/50 was a bit of a exaggeration but when I regularly traveled between Glasgow/Edinburgh and London it wasn't far off. I received a lot of vouchers for free travel.
- pmyteh 5y ago
  It's a National Statistic (subject to auditing and rigorous oversight from the ONS) so 'lies' is way off the mark. What it may do is not match your experiences (it varies a lot by time of day etc.), or be perfectly defined for the replacing-flights question. Both LNER (east coast) and Avanti (west coast) are fairly ordinary in long-distance terms. If the question was, say, Exeter to Newcastle by Cross Country I'd expect more extensive delays. Anyway, you can explore the data (including breakdowns by quarter, by long distance vs commuter, and by operating company).[0] [0]: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/performance/passenger-rail-performance/table-3114-public-performance-measure-by-operator-and-sector-periodic/ https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/performance/passeng...
  - Someone 5y ago
    > it varies a lot by time of day etc. That _may_ explain the difference. The officially reported percentage is per train, not per passenger. Passenger onboarding can cause delays (for example, a rural station may, some days, have a school class enter a train. If you make room for that in the schedule, customers will ask why you stop for 5 minutes. If you don’t, the train will be late at its next stop, if that’s only a few kilometers away), so chances are trains with fewer passengers are more punctual. If so, the per passenger percentage of on time trains will be lower. It also is measured only at final destinations. That percentage almost certainly is higher than that measured at each stop (a train that’s late half-way through can try to make up for lost time, but it can’t make up for being late at stops it already had) Finally, there the question how cancelled trains are measured. Possibly, they aren’t counted as late, but do delay passengers.

sdoering 5y ago

There was this really great talk on the Chaos Communication Congress some time back on the punctuality of German trains. I searched for it and even found the English voice over translation [1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGCmPLWZKd8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGCmPLWZKd8

elygre 5y ago

Remember to add time waiting for luggage. In Frankfurt today, it took 45 minutes from touch down until luggage arrived.

ghaff 5y ago
Big luggage that would be checked on planes is often a pain to handle on trains though. Especially if they're busy and there's really nowhere to put them. I'd actually be inclined to argue that dealing with larger luggage, whatever delays in baggage pickup there is, is easier on planes than most trains.