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> Excel allows non-coders to do many useful things I heard a great quip at some point: "Why is Excel the most useful IDE?" Answer: "Because it's the one IDE ev

by ethbr0 5y ago

> Excel allows non-coders to do many useful things I heard a great quip at some point: "Why is Excel the most useful IDE?" Answer: "Because it's the one IDE every business allows every user to access." Most of us here have forgotten that many businesses flat out ban access to programming tools for the majority of users. And what is an enterprising user to do, when they realize they're performing the same process 100 times a day? Reach for the only wrench they've been given access to. PS: I guess an analogy would be people griping about shell scripting, without considering that someone might not have the ability to install their framework of choice when connecting into a client server. It gets the job done, with the tools available.

Tozen 5y ago
Very true and a good post. Many managers and companies will go bananas if an employee wants to "program" any custom solutions for repetitive processes or for perceived efficiency. Then on the flip side, if the same employee gets "creative" with Excel, they are all for it, and smiling. Problem is, Excel can be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, might be the wrong tool, or the less efficient option. Nothing like watching various companies do absolute insanity and cause severe eye pain with convoluted and mangled up Excel spreadsheets. "Damn, at least go use MS Access or MS Project, if you going down this path."
GordonS 5y ago
I definitely think that's a large part of it, but I saw impressive uses of Excel and Access by non-coders long before it was typical to lock-down workstations the way corporations do nowadays (like, 20 years ago).
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Excel is used because it's understood by business types, not because it's the only thing available. They're comfortable with spreadsheets, it's no surprise that they'll try to solve any given problem they have with spreadsheets. You see the same thing in reverse, with programmers reaching for Python when Excel probably would've been a better choice. Everyone reaches for what's familiar.
  - steve_gh 5y ago
    I regularly have issues with new hire data scientists straight out of Uni. Connect to database, pull multiple tables into pandas / numpy. Then start joining to find the records they want in python. Why, why, why ???
_trampeltier 5y ago
100 x this. Most companys ban all kind of software. So Excel is the only solution for really all kind of problems.
xondono 5y ago
Some years ago someone posted here on HN an excel extension that turned excel into an actual IDE. While it’s true for a lot of people is the only choice, there’s also an amazing amount of enterprising users that sadly don’t know any better!
- ethbr0 5y ago
  That's the Venn diagram problem: how many people are there who (a) understand the needs of line of business non-developers, (b) understand their corporate IT policies that non-developers suffer under, (c) know the better way that other developers do it, & (d) are willing to wade through the political and policy @&$& to actually get something done about it? In my experience, not too many. Non-developers don't know what they don't know, and developers don't know what non-developers need.
908B64B197 5y ago
> Most of us here have forgotten that many businesses flat out ban access to programming tools for the majority of users. That sounds... counter productive to say the least.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  You get no argument from me, but I've seen it too frequently to believe it's not by design. Typically the rationale given is "Non-developers can't be trusted to write code and follow development policies," while leaving the unspoken that they're limiting development to people who by their organizational seat definition aren't experts in the problem they're being asked to code.
- jen729w 5y ago
  Good luck even getting access to cmd.exe at a lot of places. We have a phrase where I work: “Security: we put the ‘no’ in ‘innovation’!”
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    One of my clients blacklisted cmd.exe, but not PowerShell. I can't imagine why we continue to have security breaches in major companies...
simonh 5y ago
It’s also useful to know some VBScript. I’m not allowed to install Python or any other “actual” programming tool on my Citrix VDI but VBScript runs fine and is pretty capable.

by ethbr0 5y ago

Tozen 5y ago

Very true and a good post. Many managers and companies will go bananas if an employee wants to "program" any custom solutions for repetitive processes or for perceived efficiency. Then on the flip side, if the same employee gets "creative" with Excel, they are all for it, and smiling. Problem is, Excel can be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, might be the wrong tool, or the less efficient option. Nothing like watching various companies do absolute insanity and cause severe eye pain with convoluted and mangled up Excel spreadsheets. "Damn, at least go use MS Access or MS Project, if you going down this path."

GordonS 5y ago

I definitely think that's a large part of it, but I saw impressive uses of Excel and Access by non-coders long before it was typical to lock-down workstations the way corporations do nowadays (like, 20 years ago).

ashtonkem 5y ago
Excel is used because it's understood by business types, not because it's the only thing available. They're comfortable with spreadsheets, it's no surprise that they'll try to solve any given problem they have with spreadsheets. You see the same thing in reverse, with programmers reaching for Python when Excel probably would've been a better choice. Everyone reaches for what's familiar.
- steve_gh 5y ago
  I regularly have issues with new hire data scientists straight out of Uni. Connect to database, pull multiple tables into pandas / numpy. Then start joining to find the records they want in python. Why, why, why ???

_trampeltier 5y ago

100 x this. Most companys ban all kind of software. So Excel is the only solution for really all kind of problems.

xondono 5y ago

Some years ago someone posted here on HN an excel extension that turned excel into an actual IDE. While it’s true for a lot of people is the only choice, there’s also an amazing amount of enterprising users that sadly don’t know any better!

ethbr0 5y ago
That's the Venn diagram problem: how many people are there who (a) understand the needs of line of business non-developers, (b) understand their corporate IT policies that non-developers suffer under, (c) know the better way that other developers do it, & (d) are willing to wade through the political and policy @&$& to actually get something done about it? In my experience, not too many. Non-developers don't know what they don't know, and developers don't know what non-developers need.

908B64B197 5y ago

> Most of us here have forgotten that many businesses flat out ban access to programming tools for the majority of users. That sounds... counter productive to say the least.

ethbr0 5y ago
You get no argument from me, but I've seen it too frequently to believe it's not by design. Typically the rationale given is "Non-developers can't be trusted to write code and follow development policies," while leaving the unspoken that they're limiting development to people who by their organizational seat definition aren't experts in the problem they're being asked to code.
jen729w 5y ago
Good luck even getting access to cmd.exe at a lot of places. We have a phrase where I work: “Security: we put the ‘no’ in ‘innovation’!”
- ethbr0 5y ago
  One of my clients blacklisted cmd.exe, but not PowerShell. I can't imagine why we continue to have security breaches in major companies...

simonh 5y ago

It’s also useful to know some VBScript. I’m not allowed to install Python or any other “actual” programming tool on my Citrix VDI but VBScript runs fine and is pretty capable.