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> Unfortunately, if we get into a car accident, we don't get to ask the driver of the vehicle we're colliding with to change their location, angle of impact, an

> Unfortunately, if we get into a car accident, we don't get to ask the driver of the vehicle we're colliding with to change their location, angle of impact, and speed, in order for the collision to comply with an IIHS, NHTSA, or *NCAP, test protocol. I'm smitten with the stupid idea of teaching your self-driving car that when a crash can't be avoided it should attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol of the jurisdiction it's operating in.

chrisseaton 5y ago
Some cars actually do change their geometry prior to a crash! Things like raise the suspension on the side about to be impacted so the car is higher!
- turtlebits 5y ago
  Mercedes interestingly has a system to protect your ears by playing a sound pre-crash as well. https://www.mercedesbenzofnatick.com/new-features-mercedes-benz-comand-system.htm https://www.mercedesbenzofnatick.com/new-features-mercedes-b...
  - Arrath 5y ago
    Wow I wouldn't have even thought about a pre-crash sound being beneficial. Really interesting, thanks for the link.
jhgb 5y ago
> when a crash can't be avoided it should attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol of the jurisdiction it's operating in Like quickly put a dummy in your seat and throw you out?
- ketralnis 5y ago
  My motorcycle safety course said that in a car accident the safest place for you is inside the car in the middle of all of those airbag deployments, but in a motorcycle accident the safest place is to be thrown as far away from all of the spinning colliding sliding bending grinding metal as possible
  - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
    I mean, points for being right. We should create Star Trek teleporters so we can use them to avoid motorcycle accidents.
    - stavros 5y ago
      I don't think the teleporter would absorb the momentum though. You'd just fly out of it and smash on the nearest wall.
      - Arrath 5y ago
        Okay the mental image of this is pretty funny, I will admit.
      - thatguy0900 5y ago
        The insurance company just needs to lease out one of those giant trampoline bounce houses to teleport all of its policyholders into.
        _carbyau_ 5y ago
        What happens when two accidents happen at the "same" time? Whoever is running the teleporter would have to have "collision avoidance" strategies I guess. :-)
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        We could teleport you into a fluffy bouncy comfy room with inflatable walls.
      - 5y ago
MaxBareiss 5y ago
Modern vehicles have seatbelt pre-tensioners to get drivers as close to the tested crash position as quickly as possible. Some vehicles also move the seat position before a crash to get you closer to the test position as well.
- eunoia 5y ago
  My 2019 Volvo XC40 pre-tensions the seatbelts and moves the seats like this. I didn’t know it was a feature until I nearly got rear ended waiting on a left turn and the car went into rear impact protection mode. (Other driver veered off at the last second). It was quite impressive tbh. Edit: For the curious: https://www.volvocars.com/lb/support/manuals/xc90/2018w46/driver-support/rear-collision-warning/rear-collision-warning https://www.volvocars.com/lb/support/manuals/xc90/2018w46/dr... https://www.volvocars.com/en-th/support/manuals/v60/2017w17/safety/whips/general-information-on-whips-whiplash-protection https://www.volvocars.com/en-th/support/manuals/v60/2017w17/...
Someone1234 5y ago
I lilke the concept, but suspect it won't ever happen because the increased liability is too high. If the self-driving tries, and it worsens the impact somehow, bigger lawsuit. If the self-driving fails to do so, bigger lawsuit. And it might sound "insane" that a best attempt could result in worse liability than no attempt, but unfortunately there is a lot of legal precedent to back up the idea. PS - Although legislation could make self-driving manufacturers immune from increased liability for these "best effort" systems.
- rkagerer 5y ago
  Airbags are a pretty aggressive crash protection system. e.g. Have been cases of glasses-wearers getting their face mangled in collisions they otherwise would have been ok in. Yet that tech still managed to get widely adopted by industry.
Swizec 5y ago
> it should attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol You jest but this is what humans and animals do instinctively. When you fall, you try to fall in a way that minimizes damage. For example, if you trip over something and your hands are occupied so you can't use them to catch yourself, you will instinctively try to roll onto your shoulder instead of faceplanting into the ground. You see this in freestyle motorcycle and mountain bike riding, and skateboarding etc as well. If you see you aren't going to land the trick, you try to throw the bike or skateboard away from you and land feet first down the ramp. Plenty of videos of pros doing this on youtube.
- kube-system 5y ago
  The way pros fall is definitely more than just instinct, though. The human instinct to fully extend an arm when falling is a much worse way to fall than tuck-and-roll, etc.
  - Swizec 5y ago
    Fair. I probably spent enough of my youth on mountain bikes and rollerblades to develop those instincts. An AI driver should have those instincts too imo. I’d expect my car to crash in the safest possible way if it can’t not crash.
jacquesm 5y ago
I had a pretty bad accident way back in the 80's where I had the choice between multiple small impacts or one big one. That was a very easy choice to make. Obviously, this sort of opportunity to make a choice is extremely rare in case of an accident. Unfortunately 'no accident' wasn't on the menu any more.
runnerup 5y ago
> Attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol What if the nearest crash test protocol is an absolute "worst case" scenario like the "small overlap test" [0]. Here, getting any additional coverage would improve the outcome, even though it makes it less similar to the most-relevant IIHS test. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZC8Ykl1esE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZC8Ykl1esE

chrisseaton 5y ago

Some cars actually do change their geometry prior to a crash! Things like raise the suspension on the side about to be impacted so the car is higher!

turtlebits 5y ago
Mercedes interestingly has a system to protect your ears by playing a sound pre-crash as well. https://www.mercedesbenzofnatick.com/new-features-mercedes-benz-comand-system.htm https://www.mercedesbenzofnatick.com/new-features-mercedes-b...
- Arrath 5y ago
  Wow I wouldn't have even thought about a pre-crash sound being beneficial. Really interesting, thanks for the link.

jhgb 5y ago

> when a crash can't be avoided it should attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol of the jurisdiction it's operating in Like quickly put a dummy in your seat and throw you out?

ketralnis 5y ago
My motorcycle safety course said that in a car accident the safest place for you is inside the car in the middle of all of those airbag deployments, but in a motorcycle accident the safest place is to be thrown as far away from all of the spinning colliding sliding bending grinding metal as possible
- WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
  I mean, points for being right. We should create Star Trek teleporters so we can use them to avoid motorcycle accidents.
  - stavros 5y ago
    I don't think the teleporter would absorb the momentum though. You'd just fly out of it and smash on the nearest wall.
    - Arrath 5y ago
      Okay the mental image of this is pretty funny, I will admit.
    - thatguy0900 5y ago
      The insurance company just needs to lease out one of those giant trampoline bounce houses to teleport all of its policyholders into.
      - _carbyau_ 5y ago
        What happens when two accidents happen at the "same" time? Whoever is running the teleporter would have to have "collision avoidance" strategies I guess. :-)
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      We could teleport you into a fluffy bouncy comfy room with inflatable walls.
    - 5y ago

MaxBareiss 5y ago

Modern vehicles have seatbelt pre-tensioners to get drivers as close to the tested crash position as quickly as possible. Some vehicles also move the seat position before a crash to get you closer to the test position as well.

eunoia 5y ago
My 2019 Volvo XC40 pre-tensions the seatbelts and moves the seats like this. I didn’t know it was a feature until I nearly got rear ended waiting on a left turn and the car went into rear impact protection mode. (Other driver veered off at the last second). It was quite impressive tbh. Edit: For the curious: https://www.volvocars.com/lb/support/manuals/xc90/2018w46/driver-support/rear-collision-warning/rear-collision-warning https://www.volvocars.com/lb/support/manuals/xc90/2018w46/dr... https://www.volvocars.com/en-th/support/manuals/v60/2017w17/safety/whips/general-information-on-whips-whiplash-protection https://www.volvocars.com/en-th/support/manuals/v60/2017w17/...

Someone1234 5y ago

I lilke the concept, but suspect it won't ever happen because the increased liability is too high. If the self-driving tries, and it worsens the impact somehow, bigger lawsuit. If the self-driving fails to do so, bigger lawsuit. And it might sound "insane" that a best attempt could result in worse liability than no attempt, but unfortunately there is a lot of legal precedent to back up the idea. PS - Although legislation could make self-driving manufacturers immune from increased liability for these "best effort" systems.

rkagerer 5y ago
Airbags are a pretty aggressive crash protection system. e.g. Have been cases of glasses-wearers getting their face mangled in collisions they otherwise would have been ok in. Yet that tech still managed to get widely adopted by industry.

Swizec 5y ago

> it should attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol You jest but this is what humans and animals do instinctively. When you fall, you try to fall in a way that minimizes damage. For example, if you trip over something and your hands are occupied so you can't use them to catch yourself, you will instinctively try to roll onto your shoulder instead of faceplanting into the ground. You see this in freestyle motorcycle and mountain bike riding, and skateboarding etc as well. If you see you aren't going to land the trick, you try to throw the bike or skateboard away from you and land feet first down the ramp. Plenty of videos of pros doing this on youtube.

kube-system 5y ago
The way pros fall is definitely more than just instinct, though. The human instinct to fully extend an arm when falling is a much worse way to fall than tuck-and-roll, etc.
- Swizec 5y ago
  Fair. I probably spent enough of my youth on mountain bikes and rollerblades to develop those instincts. An AI driver should have those instincts too imo. I’d expect my car to crash in the safest possible way if it can’t not crash.

jacquesm 5y ago

I had a pretty bad accident way back in the 80's where I had the choice between multiple small impacts or one big one. That was a very easy choice to make. Obviously, this sort of opportunity to make a choice is extremely rare in case of an accident. Unfortunately 'no accident' wasn't on the menu any more.

runnerup 5y ago

> Attempt to make the crash as close as possible to the nearest crash test protocol What if the nearest crash test protocol is an absolute "worst case" scenario like the "small overlap test" [0]. Here, getting any additional coverage would improve the outcome, even though it makes it less similar to the most-relevant IIHS test. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZC8Ykl1esE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZC8Ykl1esE