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I have a hard time finding interest and value in human space flight in 2021 when its clear we are on track to destroy the planet were currently on. In the 60's

by ProAm 5y ago

I have a hard time finding interest and value in human space flight in 2021 when its clear we are on track to destroy the planet were currently on. In the 60's it was for a cold war, and in turn provided a lot of new technology advancement. This time around Im not as interested, intrigued or impressed. We have micro plastics covering pretty much every inch of this planet, people in need of food, people in need of basic medical care. I know they are in different arenas, and these problems even existed in the 1960's. But what is the point of going back to the moon at all? I don't see a point in going to Mars except for the fact it has not been done yet. It's cool but I have a hard time with it.

avmich 5y ago
Spaceflight can very well have a large role in saving the planet from climate crisis. Going to Mars is sort of mundane business - we want new markets, but on this scale it's bigger than that - we, humans, operate like that, we expand, we strive to better our lives, to know more or our surroundings, to conquer potential resources. So, if you don't see a point in going to Mars, perhaps you also don't see a point in, say, a company expanding operations in new cities or new countries.
- ProAm 5y ago
  > So, if you don't see a point in going to Mars, perhaps you also don't see a point in, say, a company expanding operations in new cities or new countries. I think there is a middle ground between the two. But Im just not excited to land on Mars, just as Im not excited about people on the space station. I dont disagree it can have (and does have) some value, but the value seems disproportionate to the media, money, and return on it is all. I can't fully explain why either, which doesnt help for internet discussions, but I just see closer issues that could use billions and focus on. > Spaceflight can very well have a large role in saving the planet from climate crisis. I would like to see this explained, or the forethought on it. Not to dismiss it but it seems like much of what we are doing now is for the sake of doing it. Maybe a mini-cold war with China. But just to say it very well may doesn't convince me this time around is all.
  - avmich 5y ago
    > I would like to see this explained, or the forethought on it. Once we had this discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21397285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21397285
- timeon 5y ago
  > we expand, we strive to better our lives, to know more or our surroundings, to conquer potential resources like locusts
oxplot 5y ago
> I have a hard time finding interest and value in human space flight in 2021 It's impossible to predict what tech can come out of such efforts that will be of use here on Earth in the future. The amount of money going to space exploration is peanuts so I think it's well justified if it has even a trace of potential to improve future of humanity and that has been true historically - e.g. satellites (GPS, weather, etc), medicine (MRI), and whole bunch of NASA spinoffs and more.
- polishdude20 5y ago
  We hear that argument a lot with space but why can't we apply that same principle to healthcare? Or renewables? Why is it that pouring billions of dollars into space is considered as potentially improving humanity but other things don't get the same treatment?
  - oxplot 5y ago
    Billions is peanuts. I think SpaceX to date has received less than 10 billion (say 20 to be safe) in total for everything! That's 20 years of research, development, coming up with never done before re-usable rockets, etc. People spent nearly half a trillion dollars (not billion) on cosmetic products in a single year! You want to point fingers, point at something you can actually locate. Money spent on space is negligible to the point that it doesn't even warrant justifying spending it.
    - polishdude20 5y ago
      I'm not saying the money is not well spent. I just think the argument of "but think of all the research and new tech that may possibly come out of this" is something that's always applied to space.
- ProAm 5y ago
  I never said space flight, I said human space flight. I see great value in space flight itself.
greedo 5y ago
We can chew gum and walk at the same time. Space exploration really doesn't detract from combatting climate change or pollution. Those are both political issues really. Visiting the Moon, and establishing a base there will help in establishing colonies on Mars and in the Belt. And don't despair. The Earth is much more resilient than many give it credit for.
- ProAm 5y ago
  Oh for sure you can't kill a planet. Humanity may suffer but Earth will be just fine for another 4 billion-ish years.
chrisjc 5y ago
As mentioned, walk and chew gum... But I also think that moving a lot of harmful activities into space would be an all-around benefit. For example, I think space mining will help reduce the need to mine a lot of resources on earth. Potentially the same may be true for certain manufacturing operations that are better suited to zero-gravity, and whose harmful bi-products might just be jettisoned off towards the sun instead of having to be buried in the desert or dumped off the coast of Africa. Apart from getting everything into orbit to begin with, any transportation thereafter is merely left up to gravity and dropping the final/semi-final products back to earth. Today, the amount of emissions resulting from striping, digging, transporting, refining, transporting, manufacturing, transporting, etc... is alarming.

by ProAm 5y ago

avmich 5y ago

Spaceflight can very well have a large role in saving the planet from climate crisis. Going to Mars is sort of mundane business - we want new markets, but on this scale it's bigger than that - we, humans, operate like that, we expand, we strive to better our lives, to know more or our surroundings, to conquer potential resources. So, if you don't see a point in going to Mars, perhaps you also don't see a point in, say, a company expanding operations in new cities or new countries.

ProAm 5y ago
> So, if you don't see a point in going to Mars, perhaps you also don't see a point in, say, a company expanding operations in new cities or new countries. I think there is a middle ground between the two. But Im just not excited to land on Mars, just as Im not excited about people on the space station. I dont disagree it can have (and does have) some value, but the value seems disproportionate to the media, money, and return on it is all. I can't fully explain why either, which doesnt help for internet discussions, but I just see closer issues that could use billions and focus on. > Spaceflight can very well have a large role in saving the planet from climate crisis. I would like to see this explained, or the forethought on it. Not to dismiss it but it seems like much of what we are doing now is for the sake of doing it. Maybe a mini-cold war with China. But just to say it very well may doesn't convince me this time around is all.
- avmich 5y ago
  > I would like to see this explained, or the forethought on it. Once we had this discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21397285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21397285
timeon 5y ago
> we expand, we strive to better our lives, to know more or our surroundings, to conquer potential resources like locusts

oxplot 5y ago

> I have a hard time finding interest and value in human space flight in 2021 It's impossible to predict what tech can come out of such efforts that will be of use here on Earth in the future. The amount of money going to space exploration is peanuts so I think it's well justified if it has even a trace of potential to improve future of humanity and that has been true historically - e.g. satellites (GPS, weather, etc), medicine (MRI), and whole bunch of NASA spinoffs and more.

polishdude20 5y ago
We hear that argument a lot with space but why can't we apply that same principle to healthcare? Or renewables? Why is it that pouring billions of dollars into space is considered as potentially improving humanity but other things don't get the same treatment?
- oxplot 5y ago
  Billions is peanuts. I think SpaceX to date has received less than 10 billion (say 20 to be safe) in total for everything! That's 20 years of research, development, coming up with never done before re-usable rockets, etc. People spent nearly half a trillion dollars (not billion) on cosmetic products in a single year! You want to point fingers, point at something you can actually locate. Money spent on space is negligible to the point that it doesn't even warrant justifying spending it.
  - polishdude20 5y ago
    I'm not saying the money is not well spent. I just think the argument of "but think of all the research and new tech that may possibly come out of this" is something that's always applied to space.
ProAm 5y ago
I never said space flight, I said human space flight. I see great value in space flight itself.

greedo 5y ago

We can chew gum and walk at the same time. Space exploration really doesn't detract from combatting climate change or pollution. Those are both political issues really. Visiting the Moon, and establishing a base there will help in establishing colonies on Mars and in the Belt. And don't despair. The Earth is much more resilient than many give it credit for.

ProAm 5y ago
Oh for sure you can't kill a planet. Humanity may suffer but Earth will be just fine for another 4 billion-ish years.

chrisjc 5y ago

As mentioned, walk and chew gum... But I also think that moving a lot of harmful activities into space would be an all-around benefit. For example, I think space mining will help reduce the need to mine a lot of resources on earth. Potentially the same may be true for certain manufacturing operations that are better suited to zero-gravity, and whose harmful bi-products might just be jettisoned off towards the sun instead of having to be buried in the desert or dumped off the coast of Africa. Apart from getting everything into orbit to begin with, any transportation thereafter is merely left up to gravity and dropping the final/semi-final products back to earth. Today, the amount of emissions resulting from striping, digging, transporting, refining, transporting, manufacturing, transporting, etc... is alarming.