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Dust clouds won’t happen on the moon due to lack of an atmosphere. You can get a localized dust plume, but not fine particles drifting away for thousands of mil

Dust clouds won’t happen on the moon due to lack of an atmosphere. You can get a localized dust plume, but not fine particles drifting away for thousands of miles in the manner of, say, the California fires.

doodlebugging 5y ago
Thanks for pointing this out. I actually considered this with the understanding that any dust clouds would be localized and persistent due to the lower gravity on the moon. The finest fraction of moon dust will remain suspended longer than here on earth and the absence of wind will localize the effects. This suspended dust will over time, blur our view from earth of the areas being actively exploited for minerals, oxygen, etc. I don't see the practicality of conducting mining operations under a dome to localize and control dust so the machinery being employed will be outside any containment and when you do this on a massive scale to potentially support interplanetary travel you will raise a cloud of dust that will take a long time to settle. I am opposed to this. Since we are two different people with different life's experiences, you don't have to be. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the visibility of any possible dust cloud. First, you have to take into account size. The smallest feature on the moon that can be seen with the naked eye is ~ 300km in diameter. IF aesthetics are your main concerns, plumes smaller than this should be no problem. 2nd, I don't agree that dust will remain suspended longer. Dust on earth is suspended in the atmosphere, which the moon lacks. On the moon, dust follows a parabolic trajectory, like a thrown rock on earth. Last, lunar dust is the same color as the lunar surface. like a white cloud on a white background, it would be extremely difficult to differentiate. I personally think a dust cloud on the moon would be cool, but this is beside the point.
  - doodlebugging 5y ago
    I understand your viewpoint. I disagree that dust from mining on the moon would be cool and that the dust would be mostly invisible. Once mining begins, if the processing is successful and their objectives are met, the operations will most likely scale up and that is when the ability to spot these changes from earth will become easier. Thanks for contributing to this discussion.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      to be clear, We are already talking about a hypothetical scenario where there are 8 billion people living on the moon, and your concern is that the mining could further scale up beyond this? If you are not interested in engaging further on the technical question of if dust would be visible, or the relative value of aesthetics vs utility, I guess there isn't anything to discuss at all.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  No, no, there is no suspended dust!!! Suspension requires an atmosphere! All dust particles on Earth experience a 9.8 m/s² acceleration towards the surface of the Earth, but other forces from the moving gases in Earth's atmosphere around them can easily overcome that for a small particle. All dust particles on the Moon will experience a 1.62 m/s² acceleration towards the surface of the Moon — which is lower — but there are no gases to stop them. They are on a ballistic trajectory from wherever they they were launched. They will impact the surface of the Moon in fairly short order, unless you launch the dust at orbital or escape velocity (upwards of 2 km/s in both cases).
  - doodlebugging 5y ago
    Even if all dust particles settle in minutes due to lack of an atmosphere, the fact that they will need to continue mining operations indefinitely to sustain their existence means that an observer on earth will likely be able to determine where they are by the permanent changes they make to the moon surface. It only requires one to monitor the moon over an extended time period. The scale of the operation will define how long that time period will be. A larger scale operation that might provide oxygen or fuel for boosters traveling away from earth might need to operate full-time for extended periods so that mining operations will be creating a cloud of dust constantly and though it may settle slowly, it will probably be detectable. Since many of the moon mining plans involve using it as a base for operations away from earth it seems unlikely that these operations would be one and done. I think that once you prove that you can satisfy that need for fuel or air to breathe in your operations and processing that it will only ramp up with time as new uses will be discovered. I could be wrong. It would not be the first time nor is it likely to be the last.

doodlebugging 5y ago

Thanks for pointing this out. I actually considered this with the understanding that any dust clouds would be localized and persistent due to the lower gravity on the moon. The finest fraction of moon dust will remain suspended longer than here on earth and the absence of wind will localize the effects. This suspended dust will over time, blur our view from earth of the areas being actively exploited for minerals, oxygen, etc. I don't see the practicality of conducting mining operations under a dome to localize and control dust so the machinery being employed will be outside any containment and when you do this on a massive scale to potentially support interplanetary travel you will raise a cloud of dust that will take a long time to settle. I am opposed to this. Since we are two different people with different life's experiences, you don't have to be. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the visibility of any possible dust cloud. First, you have to take into account size. The smallest feature on the moon that can be seen with the naked eye is ~ 300km in diameter. IF aesthetics are your main concerns, plumes smaller than this should be no problem. 2nd, I don't agree that dust will remain suspended longer. Dust on earth is suspended in the atmosphere, which the moon lacks. On the moon, dust follows a parabolic trajectory, like a thrown rock on earth. Last, lunar dust is the same color as the lunar surface. like a white cloud on a white background, it would be extremely difficult to differentiate. I personally think a dust cloud on the moon would be cool, but this is beside the point.
- doodlebugging 5y ago
  I understand your viewpoint. I disagree that dust from mining on the moon would be cool and that the dust would be mostly invisible. Once mining begins, if the processing is successful and their objectives are met, the operations will most likely scale up and that is when the ability to spot these changes from earth will become easier. Thanks for contributing to this discussion.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    to be clear, We are already talking about a hypothetical scenario where there are 8 billion people living on the moon, and your concern is that the mining could further scale up beyond this? If you are not interested in engaging further on the technical question of if dust would be visible, or the relative value of aesthetics vs utility, I guess there isn't anything to discuss at all.
fennecfoxen 5y ago
No, no, there is no suspended dust!!! Suspension requires an atmosphere! All dust particles on Earth experience a 9.8 m/s² acceleration towards the surface of the Earth, but other forces from the moving gases in Earth's atmosphere around them can easily overcome that for a small particle. All dust particles on the Moon will experience a 1.62 m/s² acceleration towards the surface of the Moon — which is lower — but there are no gases to stop them. They are on a ballistic trajectory from wherever they they were launched. They will impact the surface of the Moon in fairly short order, unless you launch the dust at orbital or escape velocity (upwards of 2 km/s in both cases).
- doodlebugging 5y ago
  Even if all dust particles settle in minutes due to lack of an atmosphere, the fact that they will need to continue mining operations indefinitely to sustain their existence means that an observer on earth will likely be able to determine where they are by the permanent changes they make to the moon surface. It only requires one to monitor the moon over an extended time period. The scale of the operation will define how long that time period will be. A larger scale operation that might provide oxygen or fuel for boosters traveling away from earth might need to operate full-time for extended periods so that mining operations will be creating a cloud of dust constantly and though it may settle slowly, it will probably be detectable. Since many of the moon mining plans involve using it as a base for operations away from earth it seems unlikely that these operations would be one and done. I think that once you prove that you can satisfy that need for fuel or air to breathe in your operations and processing that it will only ramp up with time as new uses will be discovered. I could be wrong. It would not be the first time nor is it likely to be the last.