7 ms·

This video of a crash test between a 2009 Chevy Malibu and 1959 Bel Air is a good illustration of the improvements that have been made in car safety https://www

by yissp 5y ago

This video of a crash test between a 2009 Chevy Malibu and 1959 Bel Air is a good illustration of the improvements that have been made in car safety https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

hannasanarion 5y ago
There is still much to be improved. US crash safety tests only use dummies in the size and shape of adult males. Crash safety for women and children is not tested. Safety for other road users: other drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians, is also completely unconsidered in US testing, directly contributing to the trends of wall-frontend pickups and SUVs that are now often deliberately designed and advertised for their ability to cause harm.
- rhn_mk1 5y ago
  > now often deliberately designed and advertised for their ability to cause harm. Whattttt? Can you provide some examples?
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    "What do you get when you have a 603 horsepower v8 bi-turbo engine? You get the fuck out of the way" - footage of pedestrian running in fear from the car being advertised That's the only example from this article [1] that I had saved for containing a list of egregious examples of aggressively dangerous car advertisements that is still online. The dangers of relying on youtube embeds of the things you wish to criticize. 1. https://archive.curbed.com/2020/1/31/21115593/super-bowl-worst-car-ads https://archive.curbed.com/2020/1/31/21115593/super-bowl-wor...
    - sdoering 5y ago
      This ad was a oh my WTF moment. This would never fly in Germany. Oh hey, wait. Were does this company originate? I was absolutely blown away by this.
    - mike_hock 5y ago
      Badass. I love it.
    - refurb 5y ago
      They do pedestrian safety testing too? This seems like disinformation.
      - hannasanarion 5y ago
        Europe does. The US doesn't, which is why so many American cars are so aggressivly dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, and other drivers.
        refurb 5y ago
        This is false. Pedestrian safety regulations exist in the US as well.
    - ryukafalz 5y ago
      Oh god yeah, as a city-dweller who walks everywhere, that's a terrifying thing to promote. Good example.
      - ASalazarMX 5y ago
        Don't worry, pedestrians will defend themselves with their guns. Joke aside, anyone thinking these ads depict acceptable behavior is nuts, and will find ways to harm others even if they never drive. Any thinking adult knows this is fantasy.
    - exo762 5y ago
      So, video presents following vehicles next to each other: luxury sport-sedan, some lambo-styled ultra-car, quarter-mile redneck classic, Tron-inspired super bike, drag-racer(!) and Formula One car. This is a clear fantasy. Are you mistaking this fantasy for reality? Or are you against the fantasy itself? Is this the way you react to Hulk going green?
      - hannasanarion 5y ago
        Would you accept such a violent and criminal fantasy for literally any other product? A gunman stands in a hallway, aiming down sights. "What do you get when you buy an AR-15 chambered in 5.56 with a full bump stock and 500nm laser sight?", a laser dot appears on a child's crying face, it explodes into a ball of confetti. "You get the fuck out of the way" A cop enters, is rapidly shot eight times in the chest while he fumbles with his holster, he falls to the ground. Superman appears, the gunman quick-swaps to a kryptonite mag and draws an S of bullet holes on his chest. subtitle: [professional shooter on closed range, do not attempt] Smith and Wesson: Empowering Americans since 1852
        nitrogen 5y ago
        Your example is basically describing every action movie where an off-duty cop needs to save the world.
        hannasanarion 5y ago
        Movies aren't the same as advertisements. Do you think it would be totally normal and tasteful for such an action movie to end with instructions and a limited time offer on how to purchase the guns that were used by the terrorists and vigilantes in the movie?
        olyjohn 5y ago
        Please... A 10 second search on the internet will tell you where to get those guns. I guess action movies don't make any profit from promoting violent behavior. I forgot that movie studios are non profits who donate their money to charity. Do you also think that Doom and other video games are making kids violent and making them shoot up schools? Do you think rap music will turn everybody into a violent gang member? Will watching Elvis shake his hips on TV turn you into a sexual deviant? I think what it comes down to is, you don't like cars because it's trendy these days to say cars are evil. But you like action movies, and video games, so it's all good.
    - jfrunyon 5y ago
      Somewhat offtopic: That ad makes me want the motorcycle.
  - ryukafalz 5y ago
    This one gets pretty close I think re: advertising: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pi4RrMtumI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pi4RrMtumI Note the "share the road" sign flying off the road. Yeah, nice visual there for anyone who might be outside that car. Or maybe this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJEj2X8NMI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJEj2X8NMI
    - rhn_mk1 5y ago
      The one time I saw something like that sign scene was Carmageddon, but that game was quite self-conscious in its humor, whereas in this ad it's worryingly out of place.
    - ASalazarMX 5y ago
      I might be in the wrong, but these ads were hilarious. Any adult who confuses them with reality or role models might as well think Harry Potter was a historical figure. These ads in no way compel me to buy their products, but they're funny.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure I've seen the IIHS use child size/shape dummies with/without booster seats in plenty of new crash tests. Whilst the IIHS isn't the NHTSA, it's certainly still used for safety tests when searching and looking for vehicles to purchase.
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    Size, but not shape. The IIHS use the same adult male body shape as the NHSTA, just scaled down to supposedly represent women (and it's scaled down way too far, it's actually more representative of a 12-year-old girl than an adult woman), and it is never placed in a driver seat.
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      Being scaled down too far is a good thing, based on the assumption that a larger female is better represented by the male dummy than a smaller female would be. IOW an average female is probably well protected as long as both the small female dummy and average male dummy are. If we used an average female dummy, then any female smaller than average isn't covered by the test.
- jessriedel 5y ago
  > US crash safety tests only use dummies in the size and shape of adult males. Crash safety for women and children is not tested. I think this is false. Under the NHTSA's "crash test dummies currently in service", they use dummies with the size and weight of men, women, children, and infants. https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    "Size" is dubious, "shape" is outright wrong. All of the dummies have the exact same shape: the adult male dummy re-scaled to various sizes. Meaning they are testing the weight distribution, muscle strength, and body shape of men, just at different scales. And the scale is totally unrealistic: the "woman" dummy is 4'11" and 100 pounds, smaller than 95% of women in the world, and it is never tested in the driver seat.
    - rootsudo 5y ago
      " smaller than 95% of women in the world," No, smaller than a majority (don't wish to state 95%) of USA women, sure. But of the world, no. https://www.worlddata.info/average-bodyheight.php https://www.worlddata.info/average-bodyheight.php
    - jessriedel 5y ago
      > All of the dummies have the exact same shape: the adult male dummy re-scaled to various sizes. No. You can confirm this by clicking on my link. The 3-year-old child's head is vastly larger in proportion to its body than the adult male's.
  - BrianHenryIE 5y ago
    > it took until 2003 for NHTSA to put [a female dummy] in the car. > female dummy either rides as a passenger or doesn’t participate in the test at all > Currently, there is no physical crash test dummy that represents an average adult female anywhere in the world. A thorough article on it: https://news.yahoo.com/crash-test-bias-male-focused-140226847.html https://news.yahoo.com/crash-test-bias-male-focused-14022684...
- tristor 5y ago
  > now often deliberately designed and advertised for their ability to cause harm. I think you are taking a pretty biased reading into the commercials you've referenced. Nearly every example provided in the subthreads is promoting the idea of the car representing performance and aggression, which are standard rhetoric for marketing high-performance/sports vehicles, which tend to be bought by men and tend to be bought by people who modify them for off-road (race track) usage. There is definitely a fair argument to be made that these advertisements are inappropriate since they show people doing things on public streets which would be illegal if it weren't a closed course, and a fine print disclaimer isn't really sufficient. But to claim that they are /designed/ and advertised for their /ability to cause harm/ is a bit far based on the examples provided. The reality is that vehicles are definitely categorized and marketed for different purposes and driver personality profiles, and that one of those profiles is definitely a masculine profile, and the mere existence of this is not harmful to non-masculine people which seems to be the argument you are making. There are just as many (actually much more popular) vehicles marketed to non-masculine profiles. In fact, one of the things I like to do with my partner is to discuss whether a commercial was targeted at me or them when we get commercials on Hulu. A lot of the commercials are for cars, despite neither of us looking to buy a car anytime soon.
  - pc86 5y ago
    > standard rhetoric for marketing high-performance/sports vehicles, which tend to be bought by men and tend to be bought by people who modify them for off-road (race track) usage. The number of people tracking vehicles is so incredibly small that I don't think you can say any vehicle in mass production "tends to be" bought by those who would do it.
    - tristor 5y ago
      Depends on what you mean by "mass production". Most of these high performance vehicles are small volume production for major brands and are sold often at a loss as halo cars to improve brand image so they don't appear boring. Look at the Toyota 86 as an example, there are multiple entire spec series and spec classes built around this chassis in different racing organizations around the world. At the same time, this car that's been produced since 2012 and is still in production has a total global sales volume over its entire lifespan and its siblings (FRS, BRZ) that is less than 1/10th of the the sales volume of Camry for a single calendar year just in the US. But unlike Camry, I would hazard the guess that at least 1/4th of all the FRS/86/BRZ sold will see track time before they end up in a scrap yard (maybe not with the original owner, though).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by yissp 5y ago

hannasanarion 5y ago

There is still much to be improved. US crash safety tests only use dummies in the size and shape of adult males. Crash safety for women and children is not tested. Safety for other road users: other drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians, is also completely unconsidered in US testing, directly contributing to the trends of wall-frontend pickups and SUVs that are now often deliberately designed and advertised for their ability to cause harm.

rhn_mk1 5y ago
> now often deliberately designed and advertised for their ability to cause harm. Whattttt? Can you provide some examples?
- hannasanarion 5y ago
  "What do you get when you have a 603 horsepower v8 bi-turbo engine? You get the fuck out of the way" - footage of pedestrian running in fear from the car being advertised That's the only example from this article [1] that I had saved for containing a list of egregious examples of aggressively dangerous car advertisements that is still online. The dangers of relying on youtube embeds of the things you wish to criticize. 1. https://archive.curbed.com/2020/1/31/21115593/super-bowl-worst-car-ads https://archive.curbed.com/2020/1/31/21115593/super-bowl-wor...
  - sdoering 5y ago
    This ad was a oh my WTF moment. This would never fly in Germany. Oh hey, wait. Were does this company originate? I was absolutely blown away by this.
  - mike_hock 5y ago
    Badass. I love it.
  - refurb 5y ago
    They do pedestrian safety testing too? This seems like disinformation.
    - hannasanarion 5y ago
      Europe does. The US doesn't, which is why so many American cars are so aggressivly dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, and other drivers.
      - refurb 5y ago
        This is false. Pedestrian safety regulations exist in the US as well.
  - ryukafalz 5y ago
    Oh god yeah, as a city-dweller who walks everywhere, that's a terrifying thing to promote. Good example.
    - ASalazarMX 5y ago
      Don't worry, pedestrians will defend themselves with their guns. Joke aside, anyone thinking these ads depict acceptable behavior is nuts, and will find ways to harm others even if they never drive. Any thinking adult knows this is fantasy.
  - exo762 5y ago
    So, video presents following vehicles next to each other: luxury sport-sedan, some lambo-styled ultra-car, quarter-mile redneck classic, Tron-inspired super bike, drag-racer(!) and Formula One car. This is a clear fantasy. Are you mistaking this fantasy for reality? Or are you against the fantasy itself? Is this the way you react to Hulk going green?
    - hannasanarion 5y ago
      Would you accept such a violent and criminal fantasy for literally any other product? A gunman stands in a hallway, aiming down sights. "What do you get when you buy an AR-15 chambered in 5.56 with a full bump stock and 500nm laser sight?", a laser dot appears on a child's crying face, it explodes into a ball of confetti. "You get the fuck out of the way" A cop enters, is rapidly shot eight times in the chest while he fumbles with his holster, he falls to the ground. Superman appears, the gunman quick-swaps to a kryptonite mag and draws an S of bullet holes on his chest. subtitle: [professional shooter on closed range, do not attempt] Smith and Wesson: Empowering Americans since 1852
      - nitrogen 5y ago
        Your example is basically describing every action movie where an off-duty cop needs to save the world.
        hannasanarion 5y ago
        Movies aren't the same as advertisements. Do you think it would be totally normal and tasteful for such an action movie to end with instructions and a limited time offer on how to purchase the guns that were used by the terrorists and vigilantes in the movie?
        olyjohn 5y ago
        Please... A 10 second search on the internet will tell you where to get those guns. I guess action movies don't make any profit from promoting violent behavior. I forgot that movie studios are non profits who donate their money to charity. Do you also think that Doom and other video games are making kids violent and making them shoot up schools? Do you think rap music will turn everybody into a violent gang member? Will watching Elvis shake his hips on TV turn you into a sexual deviant? I think what it comes down to is, you don't like cars because it's trendy these days to say cars are evil. But you like action movies, and video games, so it's all good.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    Somewhat offtopic: That ad makes me want the motorcycle.
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  This one gets pretty close I think re: advertising: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pi4RrMtumI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pi4RrMtumI Note the "share the road" sign flying off the road. Yeah, nice visual there for anyone who might be outside that car. Or maybe this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJEj2X8NMI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJEj2X8NMI
  - rhn_mk1 5y ago
    The one time I saw something like that sign scene was Carmageddon, but that game was quite self-conscious in its humor, whereas in this ad it's worryingly out of place.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    I might be in the wrong, but these ads were hilarious. Any adult who confuses them with reality or role models might as well think Harry Potter was a historical figure. These ads in no way compel me to buy their products, but they're funny.
throwaway946513 5y ago
I'm pretty sure I've seen the IIHS use child size/shape dummies with/without booster seats in plenty of new crash tests. Whilst the IIHS isn't the NHTSA, it's certainly still used for safety tests when searching and looking for vehicles to purchase.
- hannasanarion 5y ago
  Size, but not shape. The IIHS use the same adult male body shape as the NHSTA, just scaled down to supposedly represent women (and it's scaled down way too far, it's actually more representative of a 12-year-old girl than an adult woman), and it is never placed in a driver seat.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    Being scaled down too far is a good thing, based on the assumption that a larger female is better represented by the male dummy than a smaller female would be. IOW an average female is probably well protected as long as both the small female dummy and average male dummy are. If we used an average female dummy, then any female smaller than average isn't covered by the test.
jessriedel 5y ago
> US crash safety tests only use dummies in the size and shape of adult males. Crash safety for women and children is not tested. I think this is false. Under the NHTSA's "crash test dummies currently in service", they use dummies with the size and weight of men, women, children, and infants. https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies
- hannasanarion 5y ago
  "Size" is dubious, "shape" is outright wrong. All of the dummies have the exact same shape: the adult male dummy re-scaled to various sizes. Meaning they are testing the weight distribution, muscle strength, and body shape of men, just at different scales. And the scale is totally unrealistic: the "woman" dummy is 4'11" and 100 pounds, smaller than 95% of women in the world, and it is never tested in the driver seat.
  - rootsudo 5y ago
    " smaller than 95% of women in the world," No, smaller than a majority (don't wish to state 95%) of USA women, sure. But of the world, no. https://www.worlddata.info/average-bodyheight.php https://www.worlddata.info/average-bodyheight.php
  - jessriedel 5y ago
    > All of the dummies have the exact same shape: the adult male dummy re-scaled to various sizes. No. You can confirm this by clicking on my link. The 3-year-old child's head is vastly larger in proportion to its body than the adult male's.
- BrianHenryIE 5y ago
  > it took until 2003 for NHTSA to put [a female dummy] in the car. > female dummy either rides as a passenger or doesn’t participate in the test at all > Currently, there is no physical crash test dummy that represents an average adult female anywhere in the world. A thorough article on it: https://news.yahoo.com/crash-test-bias-male-focused-140226847.html https://news.yahoo.com/crash-test-bias-male-focused-14022684...
tristor 5y ago
> now often deliberately designed and advertised for their ability to cause harm. I think you are taking a pretty biased reading into the commercials you've referenced. Nearly every example provided in the subthreads is promoting the idea of the car representing performance and aggression, which are standard rhetoric for marketing high-performance/sports vehicles, which tend to be bought by men and tend to be bought by people who modify them for off-road (race track) usage. There is definitely a fair argument to be made that these advertisements are inappropriate since they show people doing things on public streets which would be illegal if it weren't a closed course, and a fine print disclaimer isn't really sufficient. But to claim that they are /designed/ and advertised for their /ability to cause harm/ is a bit far based on the examples provided. The reality is that vehicles are definitely categorized and marketed for different purposes and driver personality profiles, and that one of those profiles is definitely a masculine profile, and the mere existence of this is not harmful to non-masculine people which seems to be the argument you are making. There are just as many (actually much more popular) vehicles marketed to non-masculine profiles. In fact, one of the things I like to do with my partner is to discuss whether a commercial was targeted at me or them when we get commercials on Hulu. A lot of the commercials are for cars, despite neither of us looking to buy a car anytime soon.
- pc86 5y ago
  > standard rhetoric for marketing high-performance/sports vehicles, which tend to be bought by men and tend to be bought by people who modify them for off-road (race track) usage. The number of people tracking vehicles is so incredibly small that I don't think you can say any vehicle in mass production "tends to be" bought by those who would do it.
  - tristor 5y ago
    Depends on what you mean by "mass production". Most of these high performance vehicles are small volume production for major brands and are sold often at a loss as halo cars to improve brand image so they don't appear boring. Look at the Toyota 86 as an example, there are multiple entire spec series and spec classes built around this chassis in different racing organizations around the world. At the same time, this car that's been produced since 2012 and is still in production has a total global sales volume over its entire lifespan and its siblings (FRS, BRZ) that is less than 1/10th of the the sales volume of Camry for a single calendar year just in the US. But unlike Camry, I would hazard the guess that at least 1/4th of all the FRS/86/BRZ sold will see track time before they end up in a scrap yard (maybe not with the original owner, though).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]