4 ms·

“We only deliver to the US and Canada”. OK, will have to stay with my Macbook.

orangepurple 5y ago
There are plenty of ways to shop in the USA and get your products shipped to another country. Example: https://www.viabox.com/ https://www.viabox.com/
- nrp 5y ago
  Just a heads up that we’re only able to offer warranty service in countries we are shipping in.
dagw 5y ago
Yea, say what you want about Apple, but they seem to be one of the few tech companies that manage to ship all their products in all their configurations to almost all countries. So many times I read a review for something interesting sounding only to find out that that version isn't sold where I happen to live.
- throwaway473825 5y ago
  Yeah, but Apple also charges a hefty premium outside the US. Just look at the prices of Apple products in the US and the EU, and then compare with Samsung/Google/OnePlus. Whatever makes Apple products more expensive in the EU doesn't appear to apply to anyone else.
  - y7 5y ago
    Maybe it's related to the warranty? Apple sells AppleCare separately, but it's basically a warranty that's already guaranteed under EU consumer law. So in the EU they should factor this into the price.
    - sneak 5y ago
      I thought the EU mandate was 2 years, and AppleCare+ is 2 additional for a total (in the USA) of 3?
      - y7 5y ago
        You're right, for most EU countries it's indeed 2 years. > The Directive offers a 2-year legal guarantee of conformity, from the date that the item was delivered to the consumer. Most countries have implemented a 2-year guarantee of conformity but six countries apply a longer duration, with 4 of them taking into account the expected lifespan of the product. https://www.evz.de/en/shopping-internet/guarantees-and-warranties.html https://www.evz.de/en/shopping-internet/guarantees-and-warra...
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        It depends a bit though. Usually the first mandatory year is manufacturer warranty and the second and further years (where applicable) seller warranty only. So Apple is only on the hook for this if you bought from them and even then the burden of proof is on the consumer. https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/
  - weberer 5y ago
    That's most likely due to VAT adding a 17-27% tax depending on the country. If you check your receipt, it will show you what the price was before tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#VAT_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax...
    - dagw 5y ago
      It's not that. A $800 iPhone and a $900 Samsung (US prices) will often end up costing the the same in the EU
      - lrae 5y ago
        So... sounds about right then? 800 US$ are 700 Euro. With 20% VAT that would be 840€. And then you have additional fees on electronics in some countries. That's your usual "1-to-1 conversion" (with a sometimes like a "50€ premium").
        dagw 5y ago
        But surely Apple and Samsung pay the same VAT, so a Samsung phone that costs $900 should sell for more than an iPhone that costs $800 if it was only VAT. Except that doesn't happen. The $800 iPhone costs the same (or more) as the $900 Samsung in Europe. Apple's relative markup compared to Samsung is much higher in Europe than in the US.
        plausibility 5y ago
        Something I've noticed a lot with tech products is that they "cost the same" (in number value) in USD as well as Euros or GBP, which actually makes them cheaper in the US. Take for example, the Awair Element air quality meter: - Ordering in the US: USD$299[0] (~￡224) - Ordering in the UK: GBP￡299[1] (~$360 USD at the time of writing) Even including 20% VAT in UK it should only cost around ￡270 by my calculations. Is shipping really that expensive? I find similar issues buying things online in Australia (and that's before expensive shipping, duty, import GST, etc.) [0]: https://store.getawair.com/products/awair-element https://store.getawair.com/products/awair-element [1]: https://ukstore.getawair.com/products/awair-element https://ukstore.getawair.com/products/awair-element
- lazzurs 5y ago
  Nope. Here in Ireland where they have major offices not only is there no Apple retail but they only offer the Aluminium versions of Apple Watch. Currently no providers offer eSIM for Apple Watch but that shouldn’t stop me buying a better screen.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
nrp 5y ago
We’re actively building the infrastructure to launch in additional countries. It’s a challenging logistical environment at the moment, but we very much built and certified the product to be broadly available, and we are reminded of the interest in that daily!
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  Since you are gathering community interest here, may I ask if there are plans or non-plans for a FrameWork laptop with power efficient Ryzen 5000 series CPUs? I don't need a laptop right now, but, I will prepone my plans and buy one right away if it existed.
- lazzurs 5y ago
  I know of many people waiting for that before hitting the order button. If you even offered the different keyboard types right now we can organise our own shipping and tax :)
- sneak 5y ago
  What infrastructure is required other than charging extra for shipping? I ship stuff from the US to other countries all of the time.
- oxplot 5y ago
  I'd like to give a huge shout out to nrp, founder of Framework, for being super active on the Framework community forum, here on HN and I assume in 10 other places, answering questions, helping with debugging issues down to nitty gritty technical details. For a founder, this is very unusual because there is an entire business to take care of and yet he finds time for all the above as well. Thanks Nirav.
  - pa7ch 5y ago
    They are also seemingly burning the midnight oil getting shipments out the door on time with no significant schedule delays. I have one on the way that was shipped out and picked up quite late in the night.
- 5y ago
fsflover 5y ago
You could consider https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 as an alternative (non-glued and upgradable battery, RAM, SSD).

There are plenty of ways to shop in the USA and get your products shipped to another country. Example: https://www.viabox.com/ https://www.viabox.com/

nrp 5y ago
Just a heads up that we’re only able to offer warranty service in countries we are shipping in.

dagw 5y ago

Yea, say what you want about Apple, but they seem to be one of the few tech companies that manage to ship all their products in all their configurations to almost all countries. So many times I read a review for something interesting sounding only to find out that that version isn't sold where I happen to live.

throwaway473825 5y ago
Yeah, but Apple also charges a hefty premium outside the US. Just look at the prices of Apple products in the US and the EU, and then compare with Samsung/Google/OnePlus. Whatever makes Apple products more expensive in the EU doesn't appear to apply to anyone else.
- y7 5y ago
  Maybe it's related to the warranty? Apple sells AppleCare separately, but it's basically a warranty that's already guaranteed under EU consumer law. So in the EU they should factor this into the price.
  - sneak 5y ago
    I thought the EU mandate was 2 years, and AppleCare+ is 2 additional for a total (in the USA) of 3?
    - y7 5y ago
      You're right, for most EU countries it's indeed 2 years. > The Directive offers a 2-year legal guarantee of conformity, from the date that the item was delivered to the consumer. Most countries have implemented a 2-year guarantee of conformity but six countries apply a longer duration, with 4 of them taking into account the expected lifespan of the product. https://www.evz.de/en/shopping-internet/guarantees-and-warranties.html https://www.evz.de/en/shopping-internet/guarantees-and-warra...
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        It depends a bit though. Usually the first mandatory year is manufacturer warranty and the second and further years (where applicable) seller warranty only. So Apple is only on the hook for this if you bought from them and even then the burden of proof is on the consumer. https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/
- weberer 5y ago
  That's most likely due to VAT adding a 17-27% tax depending on the country. If you check your receipt, it will show you what the price was before tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#VAT_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax...
  - dagw 5y ago
    It's not that. A $800 iPhone and a $900 Samsung (US prices) will often end up costing the the same in the EU
    - lrae 5y ago
      So... sounds about right then? 800 US$ are 700 Euro. With 20% VAT that would be 840€. And then you have additional fees on electronics in some countries. That's your usual "1-to-1 conversion" (with a sometimes like a "50€ premium").
      - dagw 5y ago
        But surely Apple and Samsung pay the same VAT, so a Samsung phone that costs $900 should sell for more than an iPhone that costs $800 if it was only VAT. Except that doesn't happen. The $800 iPhone costs the same (or more) as the $900 Samsung in Europe. Apple's relative markup compared to Samsung is much higher in Europe than in the US.
        plausibility 5y ago
        Something I've noticed a lot with tech products is that they "cost the same" (in number value) in USD as well as Euros or GBP, which actually makes them cheaper in the US. Take for example, the Awair Element air quality meter: - Ordering in the US: USD$299[0] (~￡224) - Ordering in the UK: GBP￡299[1] (~$360 USD at the time of writing) Even including 20% VAT in UK it should only cost around ￡270 by my calculations. Is shipping really that expensive? I find similar issues buying things online in Australia (and that's before expensive shipping, duty, import GST, etc.) [0]: https://store.getawair.com/products/awair-element https://store.getawair.com/products/awair-element [1]: https://ukstore.getawair.com/products/awair-element https://ukstore.getawair.com/products/awair-element
lazzurs 5y ago
Nope. Here in Ireland where they have major offices not only is there no Apple retail but they only offer the Aluminium versions of Apple Watch. Currently no providers offer eSIM for Apple Watch but that shouldn’t stop me buying a better screen.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

nrp 5y ago

We’re actively building the infrastructure to launch in additional countries. It’s a challenging logistical environment at the moment, but we very much built and certified the product to be broadly available, and we are reminded of the interest in that daily!

reacharavindh 5y ago
Since you are gathering community interest here, may I ask if there are plans or non-plans for a FrameWork laptop with power efficient Ryzen 5000 series CPUs? I don't need a laptop right now, but, I will prepone my plans and buy one right away if it existed.
lazzurs 5y ago
I know of many people waiting for that before hitting the order button. If you even offered the different keyboard types right now we can organise our own shipping and tax :)
sneak 5y ago
What infrastructure is required other than charging extra for shipping? I ship stuff from the US to other countries all of the time.
oxplot 5y ago
I'd like to give a huge shout out to nrp, founder of Framework, for being super active on the Framework community forum, here on HN and I assume in 10 other places, answering questions, helping with debugging issues down to nitty gritty technical details. For a founder, this is very unusual because there is an entire business to take care of and yet he finds time for all the above as well. Thanks Nirav.
- pa7ch 5y ago
  They are also seemingly burning the midnight oil getting shipments out the door on time with no significant schedule delays. I have one on the way that was shipped out and picked up quite late in the night.
5y ago

fsflover 5y ago

You could consider https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 as an alternative (non-glued and upgradable battery, RAM, SSD).