4 ms·

It doesn't even have to be complex, often basic automation tasks fail with spaces and special characters. Honestly, treating a file system like a natural langua

It doesn't even have to be complex, often basic automation tasks fail with spaces and special characters. Honestly, treating a file system like a natural language processor is a bad idea. Besides at this point with how digital we have all become who can't understand... thisismyconfig.txt vs this is my config.txt or this_is_my_config.txt ...i've forced myself to stop using spaces, character, and even cap. They are all constructs that provide minimal value for the extra complexity.

long_time_gone 5y ago
> thisismyconfig.txt vs this is my config.txt or this_is_my_config.txt Just wondering, what is the readability of this for people who are dyslexic?
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Or in my case, people for whom English is a second language, or have low education levels. Saying, "who can't understand..." is arrogant, selfish, and an example of why normal people hate people in the SV echo chamber.
  - jeffwask 5y ago
    cestmaconfig.txt vs cest ma config.txt vs cest_ma_config.txt It's the same in any language. Hugs who hurt you. I'm also pretty sure most of us in any language use Slack, SMS or other forms of communication where text isn't necessarily presented in a grammatical correct manner and we all figure out what the person is saying.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    > Saying, "who can't understand..." is arrogant, selfish, and an example of why normal people hate people in the SV echo chamber Exactly how I feel every time Economics is brought up on HN.
  - throwaway2077 5y ago
    SV echo chamber is on your side here - it is very in vogue to denounce anglocentrism. they were defending hieroglyphs and emoji in variable names in that thread about invisible javascript backdoor a day or two ago if you'd like a recent example
    - dang 5y ago
      Could you please stop posting ideological battle comments to HN? We ban accounts that do that, regardless of their ideology, because it's (a) not what this site is for, and (b) destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
      - danlugo92 5y ago
        Agreed. But Hacker News should do something about all of the anti-bitcoin and anti-anti-nuclear ideologies running around in here. I don't really mind it that much but it'd be nice, it's really the only 2 extremisms I've experienced here, all other subjects are discussed in a fair manner.
        beambot 5y ago
        I appreciate informed discussion about bitcoin & nuclear, as both topics are highly relevant to the technical, business, and hacker roots of HN. They seem distinctly different from, say, "anglocentrism" @dang was calling out.
        danlugo92 5y ago
        > discussion There's no such thing as fair discussion about those topics here.
        Hallucinaut 5y ago
        What does "fair" mean in this usage? If it means one position attracts a lopsided balance of comments either for or against then surely that's always going to be the case? Otherwise what is your proposition, don't state any opinion unless you find a counter opinion commenter to match with? Lots of folk here are pro-privacy and lots of folk are anti-bitcoin (and some of them will be the latter because they're the former) so I don't understand how you'd extended your position in a way that leaves HN with any value.
- JCharante 5y ago
  I'm not sure, but my gut instinct is that it wouldn't help. Dyslexia rates are much lower in China, so if I suppose we could start naming files with Chinese characters (on systems that support Unicode). It would take a bit to get used to, but eventually we'd develop a pidgin language for when we talk about software, much like how if you overhear Chinese or Vietnamese developers they will mix in English words like "linked list" into their sentences, because there's not a more natural sounding alternative. Switching to Chinese would also help eliminate the spaces issue.
- teorema 5y ago
  tbh I'm not dyslexic and realized the spaces make it really difficult to know what the filename actually is. If you just take the second example, how would you know if the file was "this is my config.txt" versus "config.txt"? Aside from parsing errors it just seems to lend itself to ambiguity.
  - vertere 5y ago
    This. People are saying spaces improve ergonomics. Unless everyone always quotes their paths in documentation, emails, etc -- which they won't -- I say it actually reduces readability. Also programs automatically that turn paths into links don't work with spaces.
400thecat 5y ago
> treating a file system like a natural language processor is a bad idea could you please explain what you mean by that?
rch 5y ago
I'm similar, but I would like to support labels intended for humans, along with various translations, as metadata on top of e.g. filesystem path components.
- fouric 5y ago
  You nailed it - getting rid of spaces and dashes and underscores is extremely human-hostile. People added spaces to the English language for a reason, and that's because they make it way easier to read. Your system is only intended for other programs to interact with? Go nuts, make hex UUIDs. Actual people are supposed to use it? You need separator characters. I also don't see how those characters add "extra complexity" unless you're doing dumb things like text processing on paths and filenames (as opposed to using OS/library functions that handle paths correctly) - in which case, there's your problem.
Too 5y ago
Why stop there. A computer works more efficiently with numbers rather than strings, so let’s just give each file a number instead of a string. Besides, at this point with how digital we have all become who can’t understand… But wait, that already exists and is called an inode. A file system has a human interface and a computer interface. Don’t mix them. Let users give file names in whichever way they please.

long_time_gone 5y ago

> thisismyconfig.txt vs this is my config.txt or this_is_my_config.txt Just wondering, what is the readability of this for people who are dyslexic?

reaperducer 5y ago
Or in my case, people for whom English is a second language, or have low education levels. Saying, "who can't understand..." is arrogant, selfish, and an example of why normal people hate people in the SV echo chamber.
- jeffwask 5y ago
  cestmaconfig.txt vs cest ma config.txt vs cest_ma_config.txt It's the same in any language. Hugs who hurt you. I'm also pretty sure most of us in any language use Slack, SMS or other forms of communication where text isn't necessarily presented in a grammatical correct manner and we all figure out what the person is saying.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  > Saying, "who can't understand..." is arrogant, selfish, and an example of why normal people hate people in the SV echo chamber Exactly how I feel every time Economics is brought up on HN.
- throwaway2077 5y ago
  SV echo chamber is on your side here - it is very in vogue to denounce anglocentrism. they were defending hieroglyphs and emoji in variable names in that thread about invisible javascript backdoor a day or two ago if you'd like a recent example
  - dang 5y ago
    Could you please stop posting ideological battle comments to HN? We ban accounts that do that, regardless of their ideology, because it's (a) not what this site is for, and (b) destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - danlugo92 5y ago
      Agreed. But Hacker News should do something about all of the anti-bitcoin and anti-anti-nuclear ideologies running around in here. I don't really mind it that much but it'd be nice, it's really the only 2 extremisms I've experienced here, all other subjects are discussed in a fair manner.
      - beambot 5y ago
        I appreciate informed discussion about bitcoin & nuclear, as both topics are highly relevant to the technical, business, and hacker roots of HN. They seem distinctly different from, say, "anglocentrism" @dang was calling out.
        danlugo92 5y ago
        > discussion There's no such thing as fair discussion about those topics here.
        Hallucinaut 5y ago
        What does "fair" mean in this usage? If it means one position attracts a lopsided balance of comments either for or against then surely that's always going to be the case? Otherwise what is your proposition, don't state any opinion unless you find a counter opinion commenter to match with? Lots of folk here are pro-privacy and lots of folk are anti-bitcoin (and some of them will be the latter because they're the former) so I don't understand how you'd extended your position in a way that leaves HN with any value.
JCharante 5y ago
I'm not sure, but my gut instinct is that it wouldn't help. Dyslexia rates are much lower in China, so if I suppose we could start naming files with Chinese characters (on systems that support Unicode). It would take a bit to get used to, but eventually we'd develop a pidgin language for when we talk about software, much like how if you overhear Chinese or Vietnamese developers they will mix in English words like "linked list" into their sentences, because there's not a more natural sounding alternative. Switching to Chinese would also help eliminate the spaces issue.
teorema 5y ago
tbh I'm not dyslexic and realized the spaces make it really difficult to know what the filename actually is. If you just take the second example, how would you know if the file was "this is my config.txt" versus "config.txt"? Aside from parsing errors it just seems to lend itself to ambiguity.
- vertere 5y ago
  This. People are saying spaces improve ergonomics. Unless everyone always quotes their paths in documentation, emails, etc -- which they won't -- I say it actually reduces readability. Also programs automatically that turn paths into links don't work with spaces.

400thecat 5y ago

> treating a file system like a natural language processor is a bad idea could you please explain what you mean by that?

rch 5y ago

I'm similar, but I would like to support labels intended for humans, along with various translations, as metadata on top of e.g. filesystem path components.

fouric 5y ago
You nailed it - getting rid of spaces and dashes and underscores is extremely human-hostile. People added spaces to the English language for a reason, and that's because they make it way easier to read. Your system is only intended for other programs to interact with? Go nuts, make hex UUIDs. Actual people are supposed to use it? You need separator characters. I also don't see how those characters add "extra complexity" unless you're doing dumb things like text processing on paths and filenames (as opposed to using OS/library functions that handle paths correctly) - in which case, there's your problem.

Too 5y ago

Why stop there. A computer works more efficiently with numbers rather than strings, so let’s just give each file a number instead of a string. Besides, at this point with how digital we have all become who can’t understand… But wait, that already exists and is called an inode. A file system has a human interface and a computer interface. Don’t mix them. Let users give file names in whichever way they please.