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How does it compete against Arduino? Siemens is a huge company and it is quite surprising that I had never heard they have an Arduino competitor. Edit: So, thi

How does it compete against Arduino? Siemens is a huge company and it is quite surprising that I had never heard they have an Arduino competitor. Edit: So, this is how it competes - 250 EUR for the software module only[1] and also only MS Windows... Does not look too impressive, frankly. 1. https://www.conrad.cz/p/siemens-6es7833-1sm62-0ye5-6es78331sm620ye5-software-pro-plc-1750097 https://www.conrad.cz/p/siemens-6es7833-1sm62-0ye5-6es78331s...

ant6n 5y ago
It fits on a DIN-rail, sitting next to cuircit breakers.
idealmedtech 5y ago
When you have these devices running business critical operations, businesses are usually willing to pay more for enterprise level support, which isn't really an option for Arduino (not directly from the manufacturer at least).
- luciusdomitius 5y ago
  Well, if this means running an antiquated app on a broken OS for business critical operation... I think it puts you in choosing the lesser evil situation. On top of that I have bought 2 Siemens MSD80 ECUs (400+ EUR) and maybe around 20 VDO injectors (at 250 EUR each). The reason is not that I am a huge Siemens fan, but that the quality was and still is appaling.
  - ishikawa 5y ago
    There is no legacy OS as when you start it it simply starts running the program. You just need to program it on a computer, but the software suite is always updated. It is ugly indeed, but not broken.
    - OneTimePetes 5y ago
      Its very much broken by design. It has no proper Callstack debugging and thus discourages structured programming - aka use of objects and methods.
      - Redimo 5y ago
        You dont use objects and methods in Logo - that goes literally against what it is. Its a FUP based programming device. I mean, it's been some time since I last held one, but I'd be _very_ surprised if you could "code" on it. The whole idea of it, is that you also can create programs on it using its on screen display
        OneTimePetes 5y ago
        Yes, you do not. Its a no code solution for beginners. The very same beginner who rule this industry style wise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBPxxIjr9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBPxxIjr9U You can program it in simatic manager- which can convert other languages (KOP, AWL (Assembly-equivalent if i recall)) into FUP. Which promotes using it for larger scale projects. Which will not have objects. Not have functions. Just kilometres of ladder logic, by the time the disaster management crew is called.
- mbanzi 5y ago
  I'm the co-founder of Arduino, we do provide support to industrial customers through our Arduino PRO division https://www.arduino.cc/pro https://www.arduino.cc/pro we work already with a number of companies to implement our Pro products in their solutions
  - idealmedtech 5y ago
    I stand corrected! Good to know
lqet 5y ago
It also seems to have a very simple drag & drop interface where you can combine input sources via logic gates to output sources, including a simulator.
- luciusdomitius 5y ago
  Great, but you can invest the hundreds/thousands of EUR by which Arduino is cheaper in having someone do the coding/setup, no?
  - Redimo 5y ago
    Arduino is definitely not cheaper. I've installed and programmed several LOGOs, and it's easy as hell. It's a compact package that already contains, in itself, enough inputs and output that can be used by i.e. electricians. An Arduino requires you to take the soldering iron into the hand.
    - mbanzi 5y ago
      We have some pro products built to industrial standards that replace controllers like PLC and they require zero soldering https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/05/12/portenta-machine-control-add-a-powerful-brain-to-your-machines/ https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/05/12/portenta-machine-control-...
  - ishikawa 5y ago
    It is just a matter of where it is acceptable or not. If one hour of downtime will cost 100 of LOGOs, production managers won't take a risk with an Arduino not rugged.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
ishikawa 5y ago
It is for different applications usually. These kind of controllers exist for a very long time and they are built to last several years (like 10, 20, even 30) and they can handle rough environments such as a wide range of temperature and dust. Arduino is now popular and great for prototyping but many won't accept simply the board on a industrial and mission critical environment.
- mbanzi 5y ago
  Arduino has a "PRO" line of products built to industrial standards which specialised devices for industrial control (PLC Like) and precision agriculture. check it out here https://www.arduino.cc/pro https://www.arduino.cc/pro We work with a number of companies of different sizes to implement these new products
deleted 5y ago
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depaya 5y ago
It doesn't compete, they are for different applications. PLCs are industrial devices that are extremely rugged. They operate in very harsh environments: very hot or cold, oily, high vibrations, etc. They need to operate 24/7/365 without fail. A $5,000 microcomputer might seem like a lot, but when it's responsible for controlling a $100,000/hr production line it's a drop in the bucket.

ant6n 5y ago

It fits on a DIN-rail, sitting next to cuircit breakers.

idealmedtech 5y ago

When you have these devices running business critical operations, businesses are usually willing to pay more for enterprise level support, which isn't really an option for Arduino (not directly from the manufacturer at least).

luciusdomitius 5y ago
Well, if this means running an antiquated app on a broken OS for business critical operation... I think it puts you in choosing the lesser evil situation. On top of that I have bought 2 Siemens MSD80 ECUs (400+ EUR) and maybe around 20 VDO injectors (at 250 EUR each). The reason is not that I am a huge Siemens fan, but that the quality was and still is appaling.
- ishikawa 5y ago
  There is no legacy OS as when you start it it simply starts running the program. You just need to program it on a computer, but the software suite is always updated. It is ugly indeed, but not broken.
  - OneTimePetes 5y ago
    Its very much broken by design. It has no proper Callstack debugging and thus discourages structured programming - aka use of objects and methods.
    - Redimo 5y ago
      You dont use objects and methods in Logo - that goes literally against what it is. Its a FUP based programming device. I mean, it's been some time since I last held one, but I'd be _very_ surprised if you could "code" on it. The whole idea of it, is that you also can create programs on it using its on screen display
      - OneTimePetes 5y ago
        Yes, you do not. Its a no code solution for beginners. The very same beginner who rule this industry style wise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBPxxIjr9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBPxxIjr9U You can program it in simatic manager- which can convert other languages (KOP, AWL (Assembly-equivalent if i recall)) into FUP. Which promotes using it for larger scale projects. Which will not have objects. Not have functions. Just kilometres of ladder logic, by the time the disaster management crew is called.
mbanzi 5y ago
I'm the co-founder of Arduino, we do provide support to industrial customers through our Arduino PRO division https://www.arduino.cc/pro https://www.arduino.cc/pro we work already with a number of companies to implement our Pro products in their solutions
- idealmedtech 5y ago
  I stand corrected! Good to know

lqet 5y ago

It also seems to have a very simple drag & drop interface where you can combine input sources via logic gates to output sources, including a simulator.

luciusdomitius 5y ago
Great, but you can invest the hundreds/thousands of EUR by which Arduino is cheaper in having someone do the coding/setup, no?
- Redimo 5y ago
  Arduino is definitely not cheaper. I've installed and programmed several LOGOs, and it's easy as hell. It's a compact package that already contains, in itself, enough inputs and output that can be used by i.e. electricians. An Arduino requires you to take the soldering iron into the hand.
  - mbanzi 5y ago
    We have some pro products built to industrial standards that replace controllers like PLC and they require zero soldering https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/05/12/portenta-machine-control-add-a-powerful-brain-to-your-machines/ https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/05/12/portenta-machine-control-...
- ishikawa 5y ago
  It is just a matter of where it is acceptable or not. If one hour of downtime will cost 100 of LOGOs, production managers won't take a risk with an Arduino not rugged.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

ishikawa 5y ago

It is for different applications usually. These kind of controllers exist for a very long time and they are built to last several years (like 10, 20, even 30) and they can handle rough environments such as a wide range of temperature and dust. Arduino is now popular and great for prototyping but many won't accept simply the board on a industrial and mission critical environment.

mbanzi 5y ago
Arduino has a "PRO" line of products built to industrial standards which specialised devices for industrial control (PLC Like) and precision agriculture. check it out here https://www.arduino.cc/pro https://www.arduino.cc/pro We work with a number of companies of different sizes to implement these new products

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

depaya 5y ago

It doesn't compete, they are for different applications. PLCs are industrial devices that are extremely rugged. They operate in very harsh environments: very hot or cold, oily, high vibrations, etc. They need to operate 24/7/365 without fail. A $5,000 microcomputer might seem like a lot, but when it's responsible for controlling a $100,000/hr production line it's a drop in the bucket.