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> A National ID, that is designed to more strongly prove ID and also designed to be used as a secure form of Authentication for Authorization services... I can

> A National ID, that is designed to more strongly prove ID and also designed to be used as a secure form of Authentication for Authorization services... I can share that here in Denmark we have a system exactly like that, and have for more than a decade. It's called "NemID" (lit: EasyID), soon to be changed to "MitId" (lit: MyID). While there definitely are some problems with the current implementation, having a 2-factor auth solution in front of every government, banking, insurance, etc. web service is very helpful. [0] Keep in mind that my only interaction with individuals from the government, on the phone or otherwise, is when picking up books at the library and renewing my passport. Everything from filing my taxes through registering a child for school to reporting a move is done with a NemID login and a simple, guided form. [1] My taxes are pre-filled with the information they've already gathered from my employer and the bank through which I handle my stock portfolio. The only thing I manually have to put in is my union fees and how many times I drove to the office -- both giving me a sizable deduction. Doing my taxes at the end of the year is simply a formality too. At the start of the year I do an advance statement with what I expect to earn, and my monthly taxes are automatically pulled based on that. The end-of-year tax calculation is to ensure I didn't pay too much or too little -- the difference being due either way in April. All of this to say -- a sane, digitized interaction with public institutions is not only a possibility but a fact in certain countries. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NemID https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NemID -- the entry is critical but not unfair. The MitID changes mitigate many of the big points. [1]: https://lifeindenmark.borger.dk/ https://lifeindenmark.borger.dk/ -- It's both a "guide to Denmark" but also has the aforementioned forms. Try going through the "Health insurance card" order flow. You can't accidentally order one without a login.

ubercore 5y ago
Just moved to Norway and it's been very eye-opening seeing how easy BankID (their equivalent) makes most things in life. Only problem has been that I'm 5 months in and still don't have my ID number so I'm locked out of most aspects of life still (can't even open a bank account).
- whizzter 5y ago
  Yeah, this is a recurring theme for immigrants in these countries (esp here in Sweden where the immigration agency has been backstopped since the big 2015 refugee influx). You can get a temporary "coordination ID" that healthcare,etc can use to register your journals but Bank's doesn't always let you create accounts without personal ID numbers (and specifically no BankID's so you're locked out of all the modern digital niceties and sometimes requirements). The EU has begun a process of creating intercommunication systems* to allow for digital logins when being in other EU countries, no idea if these systems will ever allow for non-EU identifications (that would help enormously for those countries that has gotten far along). * eIDAS , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS
  - nickkell 5y ago
    A friend of mine has moved to Sweden for a one year graduate degree. I'm not sure if he's allowed to get one of these IDs as it's a short-term stay. In the meantime he's in a kind of limbo where it's difficult to do anything
    - whizzter 5y ago
      Nope, for various legacy reasons you kinda need to be an citizen to receive one. Initially the banks issued and used it (hence the name) before the Tax Office adopted it. After a while the unemployment and social security office started adopting it. Those uses were mostly fairly specific to citizen needs but in the past couple of years municipalies started using them for child care (where temporary expats definitely often need to get in touch) and soon after as the providers started looking for commercial clients the usage exploded everywhere in society and now it's starting to become really annoying/hard to live without one.
  - ubercore 5y ago
    I’m in Norway in a family reunification visa, so I don’t get the temporary number. They just count on my wife being able to take care of everything. Which she generally can, but I’m still out of luck getting a cell number, or seeing a public doctor, etc. Still happy and thankful to be here, but it’s frustrating. I can’t even order anything online from Norwegian stores.
bleuchase 5y ago
Great! We can tie in your Twitter account too so if you say something out of line or dangerous you can be banned from all of society.
- herbstein 5y ago
  I'm not even gonna entertain the implications brought here. I will however utilize this opportunity to say that every citizen has the right to interact with the government on equal footing. Elderly people without internet- and computer-expertise have, as before the technology explosion, access to "citizen services" that'll help them with everything. Including helping pay non-government bills if need be.
  - bleuchase 5y ago
    Sorry no clue what that has to do with my comment. Whether you choose to “entertain” this or not it’s being proposed by governments https://gizmodo.com/social-media-accounts-should-require-proof-of-id-accord-1846604706 https://gizmodo.com/social-media-accounts-should-require-pro...

ubercore 5y ago

Just moved to Norway and it's been very eye-opening seeing how easy BankID (their equivalent) makes most things in life. Only problem has been that I'm 5 months in and still don't have my ID number so I'm locked out of most aspects of life still (can't even open a bank account).

whizzter 5y ago
Yeah, this is a recurring theme for immigrants in these countries (esp here in Sweden where the immigration agency has been backstopped since the big 2015 refugee influx). You can get a temporary "coordination ID" that healthcare,etc can use to register your journals but Bank's doesn't always let you create accounts without personal ID numbers (and specifically no BankID's so you're locked out of all the modern digital niceties and sometimes requirements). The EU has begun a process of creating intercommunication systems* to allow for digital logins when being in other EU countries, no idea if these systems will ever allow for non-EU identifications (that would help enormously for those countries that has gotten far along). * eIDAS , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS
- nickkell 5y ago
  A friend of mine has moved to Sweden for a one year graduate degree. I'm not sure if he's allowed to get one of these IDs as it's a short-term stay. In the meantime he's in a kind of limbo where it's difficult to do anything
  - whizzter 5y ago
    Nope, for various legacy reasons you kinda need to be an citizen to receive one. Initially the banks issued and used it (hence the name) before the Tax Office adopted it. After a while the unemployment and social security office started adopting it. Those uses were mostly fairly specific to citizen needs but in the past couple of years municipalies started using them for child care (where temporary expats definitely often need to get in touch) and soon after as the providers started looking for commercial clients the usage exploded everywhere in society and now it's starting to become really annoying/hard to live without one.
- ubercore 5y ago
  I’m in Norway in a family reunification visa, so I don’t get the temporary number. They just count on my wife being able to take care of everything. Which she generally can, but I’m still out of luck getting a cell number, or seeing a public doctor, etc. Still happy and thankful to be here, but it’s frustrating. I can’t even order anything online from Norwegian stores.

bleuchase 5y ago

Great! We can tie in your Twitter account too so if you say something out of line or dangerous you can be banned from all of society.

herbstein 5y ago
I'm not even gonna entertain the implications brought here. I will however utilize this opportunity to say that every citizen has the right to interact with the government on equal footing. Elderly people without internet- and computer-expertise have, as before the technology explosion, access to "citizen services" that'll help them with everything. Including helping pay non-government bills if need be.
- bleuchase 5y ago
  Sorry no clue what that has to do with my comment. Whether you choose to “entertain” this or not it’s being proposed by governments https://gizmodo.com/social-media-accounts-should-require-proof-of-id-accord-1846604706 https://gizmodo.com/social-media-accounts-should-require-pro...