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Interesting part from the Dutch version of the article: Booking is nooit eerder op spionage gestuit. Het bedrijf is er ook niet echt naar op zoek. Zolang die g
by consp 5y ago
Interesting part from the Dutch version of the article:
Booking is nooit eerder op spionage gestuit. Het bedrijf is er ook niet echt naar op zoek. Zolang die geen hinder oplevert, kost het geen geld. De onuitgesproken consensus onder specialisten binnen het bedrijf is: we vermoeden dat inlichtingendiensten meekijken, maar zolang we ze niet zien, maken we ons niet druk.
Which roughly translates to We are not looking for espionage and if it doesn't hinder us we don't care.
- mettamage 5y agoSounds pragmatic, I wonder when this approach will backfire though.
- throwaway4good 5y agoI bet the attitude would have been very different had spying been done by China, Russia, Israel, or even the Netherlands itself.
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoDepends on whether they see it as competition. Given their market share, I don't believe they do. They're aimed at a western market.
- throwaway4good 5y agoThey are quite active in Asia including China.
- buran77 5y agoIt would have turned into one of the hundreds of articles about Russian, Chinese, Iranian, Ukrainian, North Korean, etc. hackers meant to solidify people's world view that we have a "good side" and a "bad side" of the world. The reality is that we have a "bad side" and a "worse side" but that's a hard pill to swallow for the regular person. Hence the deluge of articles meant to "straighten up" the view.
- thrashh 5y agoYou’re mistakenly assuming that everyone sees intelligence services as bad, because as much as many people are concerned, “an enemy of an enemy is a friend.”
- WarOnPrivacy 5y agoIn as far as news editors and journalists believe this, they have lost their way.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Nasrudith 5y agoNah - it is assuming they should be seen as bad actors and we would all be better off if they were all shoved feet first through a wood chipper but alas there is a tragic lack of identified targets, chippers, and people to shove them in.
- robbedpeter 5y agoWe might get a couple or ten good years out of that, but it would leave an ecological void in human affairs to be filled in by bad actors. "Better the devil we know" is an unfortunately potent argument supporting the West's intelligence community. Better legislation to restrain their abusive tendencies, and an endless global push for human rights, liberty, and human well-being is a solid long view, I think.
- hetspookjee 5y agoLol you'd be suprised. Recently one large dutch newspaper published a scathing report published by CapGemini (large consultancy in NL) that researched the security setup at the largest telco in NL (KPN). They found that Huawei was able to listen, read and do pretty much anything they'd like with the data. But this was quickly swept beneath the rug. So no, I am pretty confident that the attitude wouldn't be different if either of those state actors seem to be responsible. Here's a link: https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/huawei-kon-alle-gesprekken-van-mobiele-kpn-klanten-afluisteren-inclusief-die-van-politici~bd1aece1/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/huawei-kon-alle... You can circumvent the paywall by disabling javascript.
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoBert Hubert publicized this event a year ago. And he is one of the most influential bloggers in Europe. The problem is muuuuch larger.
- throwaway4good 5y agoFor every newspaper article that covers actual US espionage, I can show you ten that speculate on the potential of espionage by Huawei and other Chinese companies. I think we in western europe are kind of embarrased by US surveillance and the fact that we cannot do anything about it. That is why we try to ignore it and not talk about it.
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoAs an example, Belgium gave up its root CA in favor of Digicert-privided certificates. We could have avoided that.
- aj3 5y agoArchived version: https://archive.md/z3t8O https://archive.md/z3t8O Note that it uncritically accepts report from 2009 which according to company was meant to be risk modeling exercise. Authors outright dismiss everything either KPL or CapGemini has to say themselves and does not even try presenting mitigations that presumably have been put in place, changes in infrastructure since 2009 and other more contemporary reports.
- LogonType10 5y agoIt depends on if the Chinese/Russian/Israel troll farms are working that day.
- smooc 5y agoThe same goes for Banks, a.o. Dutch banks. They are a bit more picky though. Domestic and US is fine, Russian and Chinese is not.
- sjaak 5y agoProof?
- misja111 5y agoThis is nonsense. Source: I have been working in the cyber security department of a major Dutch bank.
- isoprophlex 5y agoDoesn't an admission that you work for the cybersecurity of a Dutch bank immediately discount any claims you make? If you're responsible for their cyber security, I guess you have a stake in projecting the idea that everything is fine. Either way you can't prove anything with a one line comment like this. The only winning move is not to play... (Or ask for sources. Of course the assertion by smooc is equally devoid of proof; I'm commenting because this chain amuses me)
- ziddoap 5y agoThis is one of those interesting lines of argument where you position yourself so that you can't possibly be proven wrong. No one can prove you wrong when you claim that anyone with knowledge from the other side should be immediately discredited. You mention sources, but if you discredit the first-party source out of the gate, what sources are even left? Documents from the bank created by the people you discredit? (I take no position either way, I'm just commenting because your comment amuses me.)
- misja111 5y agoI have been working there. I don't work there anymore. But I doubt that whatever I say could change your opinion, you seem to have your mind already made up.
- qwertox 5y agoAccording to Google Translate: > Booking has never encountered espionage before. The company isn't really looking for it either. As long as it doesn't cause any hindrance, it won't cost you any money. The unspoken consensus among specialists within the company is: we suspect that intelligence services are watching, but as long as we don't see them, we don't worry. What should make me believe that they don't have the same approach towards black hat hackers which are silently farming their data?
- arthur_sav 5y ago> as long as we don't see them, we don't worry If we don't know they exist... do they really exist? Brilliant
- sandworm101 5y ago>> black hat hackers How are foreign intelligence services not black hats? They are stealing data in order to use it for any number of non-nice things. Not selling the data on the dark web doesn't bleach their hats.
- that_guy_iain 5y agoI would assume most are hackers for hire. Just because their customers are goverments doesn't change the fact they're selling their wares and data found.
- jdavis703 5y agoIf intelligence agencies are after you you’ve got way bigger problems than some fraudsters using your data for financial scams. It’s the same reason smart lock hacks don’t scare me… Anyone who is exploiting technology to gain physical access to my physical body is going to get me, regardless if I get hacked or not (e.g. thugs could just kick my door in, or wait outside and launch an ambush).
- stjohnswarts 5y agoWait you don't have perimeter sensors and 360-degree camera coverage at your studio apartment?
- hammock 5y agoHow could allowing random countries to spy on your customers not be considered a hindrance? Don't you think this would cost you future customers?
- shmatt 5y agoI don't think anyone assumes the booking for their next family vacation or business trip can't be tracked. They use their credit card and their telephone number at least As for losing the customer base of drug kingpins and wanted terrorists, they're probably OK with losing them
- hammock 5y agoThat might be a reasonable expectation, that the government of the country whose company you use to book a hotel would know what you're doing. But that's not this. Booking.com is a Dutch company. The spy was American. And not even authorized by the US nor the Netherlands either.
- capableweb 5y agoBooking.com is kind of a Dutch company, at least the .com division, but it's actually owned by a American parent, "Booking Holdings", based in Norwalk, Connecticut.
- astrange 5y agoThey sold themselves to Priceline because Europe doesn't seem capable of funding startups.
- capableweb 5y agoTrue, too bad Klarna, Spotify, Snyk, Glovo, N26, eToro and more simply doesn't exist because they couldn't find funding :(
- oxfordmale 5y ago
- hbrav 5y agoIf they become aware of espionage, are they not still obliged to report it under article 33 of the GDPR? https://gdpr-info.eu/art-33-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-33-gdpr/