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I have not really seen much popularity for those forks. And I'm honestly not trying to handwave anything away. This is like, literally every open source project

by md8z 5y ago

I have not really seen much popularity for those forks. And I'm honestly not trying to handwave anything away. This is like, literally every open source project. You have to adjust your workflow to use anything, a desktop can't do that for you. If you decide "I hate GNOME/XFCE/KDE/whatever I'm never going to use it" and then switch to something else then you have to adjust your workflow again and then they have to pay the maintenance cost. So I really do not get why there is so much resistance to any particular project pushing a certain workflow, or what you want me to say that would make you happy. I hope you can understand if someone refuses to ever take "no" as an answer to a feature request than it is probably that person who is being unreasonable there, that is going to guarantee that they face disappointment. I apologize if this seems on-the-nose but this started as a response to someone claiming that some behavior is hostile, so I think it is really important to re-adjust the expectations here. I'm really disappointed to see the thumbnail thing get brought up yet again, it's extremely exhausting to keep having to come back to that issue over and over. None of those patches in your comment appear to have ever been finished for various reasons. We could get into it and try to play the blame game here but also I hope you can understand how that isn't helpful. I know you are posting it in good faith, and if you have something new to add to the conversation that would move it forward and resolve the situation then I'd be glad to listen. But otherwise I have to say I'm sorry, I am not interested to go pick apart 5, 10, 15 year old comments on a bug tracker. Especially if the end goal is just speculating at how we think some developers may or may not have acted like jerks. Edit: And I don't even work on this stuff, I bet you can imagine how the GNOME people feel after getting brigaded every few months from reddit and 4chan commenters complaining about how something isn't done yet...

garbagecoder 5y ago
You’re exhausted by the file picker thing? Please, they’re just refusing to do it out of spite.
- md8z 5y ago
  Out of spite for what? It's open source, nobody owes each other anything. Please don't assume bad faith and please do not take it personal if someone declined a feature request. You may also want to see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29176890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29176890
  - em-bee 5y ago
    why is the parent comment being downvoted? regardless of what should have happened in the development, it is not helpful to assume bad faith when your desired outcome is not achived. that is exactly what the gnome dev post did and what caused the system76 maintainer to stop contributing. assuming bad faith is the underlying core issue for this whole topic.
    - _0tsb 5y ago
      When is it appropriate to assume bad faith? I feel like just never assuming bad faith ever completely decouples people/organizations from the consequences of their actions.
      - md8z 5y ago
        Well in my opinion, it is never appropriate here, because it is against the HN guidelines: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." To me it is not intellectually rewarding to have a conversation talking about how someone else is a jerk or talking about how we want to make someone else suffer. Especially if the "action" you're trying to punish someone for (i.e. doing bug triage) is something that is a completely normal part of any open source project. I've noticed that once the conversation gets into that mode, it seems fairly impossible to have any kind of constructive dialogue. I just want to talk about technical stuff related to these desktops. It's really exhausting and hard to do that when every comment thread devolves into the airing of grievances against some developer based on some comments that were made years ago. I mean, come on, we are a smart bunch, we can do better than this. Edit: And I think what you've said is really dangerous, I have to ask you to please stop that line of thinking. You are talking about making people suffer for something that you acknowledge is just an assumption. If you know that there is bad faith happening then that's a different story, you would flag it and then the moderators here will usually ban the person if they keep doing it. But you didn't say that you knew it was happening, you said it was an assumption. I hope you can see how that's not fair to anybody, I don't think you would want to be punished for people making untrue assumptions about you either.

by md8z 5y ago

garbagecoder 5y ago

You’re exhausted by the file picker thing? Please, they’re just refusing to do it out of spite.

md8z 5y ago
Out of spite for what? It's open source, nobody owes each other anything. Please don't assume bad faith and please do not take it personal if someone declined a feature request. You may also want to see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29176890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29176890
- em-bee 5y ago
  why is the parent comment being downvoted? regardless of what should have happened in the development, it is not helpful to assume bad faith when your desired outcome is not achived. that is exactly what the gnome dev post did and what caused the system76 maintainer to stop contributing. assuming bad faith is the underlying core issue for this whole topic.
  - _0tsb 5y ago
    When is it appropriate to assume bad faith? I feel like just never assuming bad faith ever completely decouples people/organizations from the consequences of their actions.
    - md8z 5y ago
      Well in my opinion, it is never appropriate here, because it is against the HN guidelines: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." To me it is not intellectually rewarding to have a conversation talking about how someone else is a jerk or talking about how we want to make someone else suffer. Especially if the "action" you're trying to punish someone for (i.e. doing bug triage) is something that is a completely normal part of any open source project. I've noticed that once the conversation gets into that mode, it seems fairly impossible to have any kind of constructive dialogue. I just want to talk about technical stuff related to these desktops. It's really exhausting and hard to do that when every comment thread devolves into the airing of grievances against some developer based on some comments that were made years ago. I mean, come on, we are a smart bunch, we can do better than this. Edit: And I think what you've said is really dangerous, I have to ask you to please stop that line of thinking. You are talking about making people suffer for something that you acknowledge is just an assumption. If you know that there is bad faith happening then that's a different story, you would flag it and then the moderators here will usually ban the person if they keep doing it. But you didn't say that you knew it was happening, you said it was an assumption. I hope you can see how that's not fair to anybody, I don't think you would want to be punished for people making untrue assumptions about you either.