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The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. Before ebikes, you either ro

The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. Before ebikes, you either rode a bicycle, or moved up to a motorscooter or motorcycle, which are much more regulated. The problem is, ebikes are stealth motorscooters. They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. I just started riding motorcycles and you are told that you should ride as if you are invisible, and it's totally true. Ebikes, however, are even worse. You're still going 30, 40 or more and yet, you're even less visible to traffic and less protected should something go wrong. This is going to be a huge issue as these things get more popular. Which they will be. My son and I are getting really into ebikes and e-dirtbikes and e-motorcycles. We're building our third right now [1]. They really are a totally new and interesting area which, like how Tesla changed perceptions of electric cars, ebikes are going to do the same with two wheeled vehicles. For those of us in temperate areas like California, it might represent a real fundamental shift in how we all commute. Laws are going to need to be changed quickly. For those of you interested, definitely start looking at all the activity around ebikes and e-motorbikes online [2]. There's a quickly growing community of enthusiasts who are building their own bikes from scratch, modding/upgrading their off-the-shelf bikes, converting old dirtbikes and more. It really feels like we're at a tipping point. Even HN has had several articles about it in as many days, even though I think most of the articles and conversation really missed the point: Ebikes are a 10x innovation and we should really be thinking of what that will mean. 1. https://www.instagram.com/p/CV9vQWcLGIh/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CV9vQWcLGIh/ 2. https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ebikes/ https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ebikes/

TulliusCicero 5y ago
> They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. Not really? Class 1 and 2 ebikes in the US top out at 20 mph. Ebikes in Europe usually top out at 25 km/h (15.5 mph). Even 20 mph is achievable by a moderately fit person on a road bike for a sustained period of time.
- russellbeattie 5y ago
  I'm talking about the thousands of Sur-Ron and Segways, Super 73s, etc. which have pedals simply to be technically class 2, yet can hit 70mph. I'm not sure why the downvotes. Oh well.
  - Arainach 5y ago
    Pedals don't make you class 2. Class 2 requires bring limited to 20mph. Even Class 3 requires bring limited to 28mph. No ebike is hitting "70mph". The hearing and tires avg l aren't good enough and the battery didn't even deliver enough power.
    - russellbeattie 5y ago
      https://youtu.be/I8Ia6P1dBBI https://youtu.be/I8Ia6P1dBBI Really? It's not that hard to Google this stuff.
      - nybble41 5y ago
        It may be based on a bicycle and have an electric motor, but the vehicle in that video is not a class 1, 2, or 3 e-bike. Due to the speed and motor size (2 kW) most places would classify it as an electric motorcycle and require the corresponding license. The limit to be considered a class 3 e-bike (in the US), the highest e-bike class, is a maximum speed of 28 MPG on level ground with standard passenger + cargo mass before the assist cuts out. (You may be able to exceed that speed with pure pedaling, or on a downhill slope.) Class 1 and 2 are limited to 20 MPH, with only foot-controlled throttle ("pedal assist") or the option of hand-activated throttle, respectively. All three classes are limited to 750 watt or smaller motors. Quite a few places treat class 3s as motorbikes or motorcycles rather than bicycles.
- gregors 5y ago
  People can are are modifying them. 80 mph Sur Ron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udAVx85IFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udAVx85IFs Call it whatever you want, these are motorcycles.
dukeyukey 5y ago
> The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. At least in the EU (and the UK) e-bikes are limited to 25km/h, about 15.5m/h. Even I can cycle faster than that. And vehicles like moped's were extremely common in European cities a decade or two ago, which fit the same characteristics as en e-bike today.
jjav 5y ago
> They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time Not really. The various e-bike classes all have assist cutoff speeds which are lower than what one can pedal a regular road bike, so e-bikes aren't any faster. It just takes less effort and sweat to keep the speed, but the actual speed isn't higher.

TulliusCicero 5y ago

> They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. Not really? Class 1 and 2 ebikes in the US top out at 20 mph. Ebikes in Europe usually top out at 25 km/h (15.5 mph). Even 20 mph is achievable by a moderately fit person on a road bike for a sustained period of time.

russellbeattie 5y ago
I'm talking about the thousands of Sur-Ron and Segways, Super 73s, etc. which have pedals simply to be technically class 2, yet can hit 70mph. I'm not sure why the downvotes. Oh well.
- Arainach 5y ago
  Pedals don't make you class 2. Class 2 requires bring limited to 20mph. Even Class 3 requires bring limited to 28mph. No ebike is hitting "70mph". The hearing and tires avg l aren't good enough and the battery didn't even deliver enough power.
  - russellbeattie 5y ago
    https://youtu.be/I8Ia6P1dBBI https://youtu.be/I8Ia6P1dBBI Really? It's not that hard to Google this stuff.
    - nybble41 5y ago
      It may be based on a bicycle and have an electric motor, but the vehicle in that video is not a class 1, 2, or 3 e-bike. Due to the speed and motor size (2 kW) most places would classify it as an electric motorcycle and require the corresponding license. The limit to be considered a class 3 e-bike (in the US), the highest e-bike class, is a maximum speed of 28 MPG on level ground with standard passenger + cargo mass before the assist cuts out. (You may be able to exceed that speed with pure pedaling, or on a downhill slope.) Class 1 and 2 are limited to 20 MPH, with only foot-controlled throttle ("pedal assist") or the option of hand-activated throttle, respectively. All three classes are limited to 750 watt or smaller motors. Quite a few places treat class 3s as motorbikes or motorcycles rather than bicycles.
gregors 5y ago
People can are are modifying them. 80 mph Sur Ron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udAVx85IFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udAVx85IFs Call it whatever you want, these are motorcycles.

dukeyukey 5y ago

> The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. At least in the EU (and the UK) e-bikes are limited to 25km/h, about 15.5m/h. Even I can cycle faster than that. And vehicles like moped's were extremely common in European cities a decade or two ago, which fit the same characteristics as en e-bike today.

jjav 5y ago

> They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time Not really. The various e-bike classes all have assist cutoff speeds which are lower than what one can pedal a regular road bike, so e-bikes aren't any faster. It just takes less effort and sweat to keep the speed, but the actual speed isn't higher.