That isn't really true IMO. I don't think anything they are trying to do would be impossible with GNOME or KDE. But I get it, people need to put in the time to

That isn't really true IMO. I don't think anything they are trying to do would be impossible with GNOME or KDE. But I get it, people need to put in the time to work with upstream, and for some who just want to ship products, that's not convenient.