4 ms·

Somewhat related to this, I've recently been shopping for a new car to replace my current Subaru that I've had for over a decade. It's been a great car so I fig

by rurp 5y ago

Somewhat related to this, I've recently been shopping for a new car to replace my current Subaru that I've had for over a decade. It's been a great car so I figured I'd get another Subaru but, man, some of the newer "features" have completely turned me off to the company. One is a system called DriverFocus that monitors the drivers face, runs some sort of facial recognition software, and alerts anytime it doesn't think the driver's face is paying enough attention. Unsurprisingly it's horribly buggy and has a ton of false positives, but even worse: you can't disable it! There's a setting in the menu that will turn it off for that trip, but it will turn itself back on during a future start. To make it even worse, some models can't be purchased without it now. I can only imagine what the company will be doing with that facial data down the line. I absolutely don't want a car that constantly spies on my face in a way that can't even be turned off. Between that feature, this telemetry article, and some other anti-user features it's incredible what a customer hostile company Subaru has become. It's a shame because they used to be one of my favorites.

lttlrck 5y ago
My 2013 E350 MB monitors driver alertness through steering, brake and throttle input alone. And it's surprisingly good, facial recognition is not required. The only time it gets triggered is when I'm doing late night or very early morning driving, when you'd expect deteriorated attention - I don't feel drowsy so it's beeping is quite annoying but that's the whole point...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
monkeybutton 5y ago
The manual transmission versions of their models are lacking many of these new features because they are not compatible. Its almost enough to make me want to learn.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  Actually just bought a 2022 Subaru Impreza Hatch with a 5speed, and it's been a blast to drive. No cameras or spying on drivers with the manual model. It still has a radio and cd player separate from the a/c and climate controls. Lovely car.
- ploxiln 5y ago
  You should! It makes driving more interesting and fun, even many years later. It's only really annoying in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go traffic.
  - grvdrm 5y ago
    +1 to learning. Absolutely a blast. And frankly I don’t even find it annoying in traffic. These days lots of sticks have hill assist so don’t have to worry as much about the delicate process of engaging the clutch on a hill. Now missing my 2015 GTI with a 6-speed stick. One of the most fun cars to drive.
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
  Do it. It’s easy.
brokenmachine 5y ago
My current car is pretty old, but it had a really loud buzzer that went off if you started the car without the seatbelt on. I never drive without my seatbelt, it's just automatic for me to put it on, but I often start the car and let it warm up a bit while I rummage with my stuff on the passenger seat or whatever. I had to buy an ELM device and hook the car to my laptop and use some dodgy Russian software to disable that stupid buzzer. I dread buying a more recent car because it seems they're rapidly adding more and more stupid, annoying, and privacy removing anti-features that you can't disable. And touchscreens. Touchscreens have almost no reason to be in a car. Volume and AC control on a touchscreen, over my dead body.
- omega3 5y ago
  For your seatbelt issue, I guess it would have been easier to just plug in your seatbelt or buy one of these seatbelt ends.
mayama 5y ago
EU upcoming mandatory safety feature list includes driver attention monitoring system. These kind of features might be included in all cars going forward.
tssva 5y ago
Subaru has a long history of questionable safety features which can't be turned off. My parents used to have a 1983 Subaru GL sedan. It had a digital display. If you exceeded 55 Mph, the US national maximum speed limit at the time, redlines would appear beneath the speedometer digits and a buzzer would sound as long as the speed exceeded 55. There was no official way to disable the buzzer although I'm sure some enterprising people found non Subaru approved ways to do so.
- mgarfias 5y ago
  In 2014 I was in German and re Ted an Audi A1. It screamed at me at 200km/h (or maybe it was 180?). Anyway, it was super annoying.
wpietri 5y ago
Huh. I sometimes drive a 2017 Outback and I was shocked at how annoying its "helpful" systems are. No matter what problem it thinks is going on, its response is to beep annoyingly in various amounts. With, as you say, a lot of false positives. The thing makes me twitchy. I was thinking, "well, maybe it's a relatively new feature". I'm very sorry to hear they've gotten worse!
mint2 5y ago
Btw Starting 2024 or maybe it was 2026 all cars will have anti-DUI tech. I.e most likely cameras of some sort detecting if one is drunk.
- filoeleven 5y ago
  2026, if they can do it by then. The preference is for “systems to discretely [sic] detect alcohol on drivers’ breaths or in their blood.” So probably not cameras. This mandate was in the infrastructure bill. https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/11/09/drunk-driving-technology-infrastructure/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/11/09/dru...
newaccount74 5y ago
In my time as an ambulance driver I was surprised how many accidents were caused by people just not looking at the road! I'd wonder, how could two cars collide like that, and the only explanation I could find was that the drivers just weren't looking. It sounds like they need to work on false alarms, but in principle I believe that software like this is going to save many lives, more than automatic driving.
- suetoniusp 5y ago
  The problem with this is its a black box of complexity that the user has no control over that effects the usefulness of a product they "own". When it breaks they have no recourse but to bring it to a "Company" repair shop and pay to have it fixed. They cant upgrade it they cant modify it they cant turn it off. Its modern day "Company store" bullshit
- patrick451 5y ago
  Saving lives is not the only metric to optimize.

by rurp 5y ago

lttlrck 5y ago

My 2013 E350 MB monitors driver alertness through steering, brake and throttle input alone. And it's surprisingly good, facial recognition is not required. The only time it gets triggered is when I'm doing late night or very early morning driving, when you'd expect deteriorated attention - I don't feel drowsy so it's beeping is quite annoying but that's the whole point...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

monkeybutton 5y ago

The manual transmission versions of their models are lacking many of these new features because they are not compatible. Its almost enough to make me want to learn.

throwaway946513 5y ago
Actually just bought a 2022 Subaru Impreza Hatch with a 5speed, and it's been a blast to drive. No cameras or spying on drivers with the manual model. It still has a radio and cd player separate from the a/c and climate controls. Lovely car.
ploxiln 5y ago
You should! It makes driving more interesting and fun, even many years later. It's only really annoying in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go traffic.
- grvdrm 5y ago
  +1 to learning. Absolutely a blast. And frankly I don’t even find it annoying in traffic. These days lots of sticks have hill assist so don’t have to worry as much about the delicate process of engaging the clutch on a hill. Now missing my 2015 GTI with a 6-speed stick. One of the most fun cars to drive.
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
Do it. It’s easy.

brokenmachine 5y ago

My current car is pretty old, but it had a really loud buzzer that went off if you started the car without the seatbelt on. I never drive without my seatbelt, it's just automatic for me to put it on, but I often start the car and let it warm up a bit while I rummage with my stuff on the passenger seat or whatever. I had to buy an ELM device and hook the car to my laptop and use some dodgy Russian software to disable that stupid buzzer. I dread buying a more recent car because it seems they're rapidly adding more and more stupid, annoying, and privacy removing anti-features that you can't disable. And touchscreens. Touchscreens have almost no reason to be in a car. Volume and AC control on a touchscreen, over my dead body.

omega3 5y ago
For your seatbelt issue, I guess it would have been easier to just plug in your seatbelt or buy one of these seatbelt ends.

mayama 5y ago

EU upcoming mandatory safety feature list includes driver attention monitoring system. These kind of features might be included in all cars going forward.

tssva 5y ago

Subaru has a long history of questionable safety features which can't be turned off. My parents used to have a 1983 Subaru GL sedan. It had a digital display. If you exceeded 55 Mph, the US national maximum speed limit at the time, redlines would appear beneath the speedometer digits and a buzzer would sound as long as the speed exceeded 55. There was no official way to disable the buzzer although I'm sure some enterprising people found non Subaru approved ways to do so.

mgarfias 5y ago
In 2014 I was in German and re Ted an Audi A1. It screamed at me at 200km/h (or maybe it was 180?). Anyway, it was super annoying.

wpietri 5y ago

Huh. I sometimes drive a 2017 Outback and I was shocked at how annoying its "helpful" systems are. No matter what problem it thinks is going on, its response is to beep annoyingly in various amounts. With, as you say, a lot of false positives. The thing makes me twitchy. I was thinking, "well, maybe it's a relatively new feature". I'm very sorry to hear they've gotten worse!

mint2 5y ago

Btw Starting 2024 or maybe it was 2026 all cars will have anti-DUI tech. I.e most likely cameras of some sort detecting if one is drunk.

filoeleven 5y ago
2026, if they can do it by then. The preference is for “systems to discretely [sic] detect alcohol on drivers’ breaths or in their blood.” So probably not cameras. This mandate was in the infrastructure bill. https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/11/09/drunk-driving-technology-infrastructure/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/11/09/dru...

newaccount74 5y ago

In my time as an ambulance driver I was surprised how many accidents were caused by people just not looking at the road! I'd wonder, how could two cars collide like that, and the only explanation I could find was that the drivers just weren't looking. It sounds like they need to work on false alarms, but in principle I believe that software like this is going to save many lives, more than automatic driving.

suetoniusp 5y ago
The problem with this is its a black box of complexity that the user has no control over that effects the usefulness of a product they "own". When it breaks they have no recourse but to bring it to a "Company" repair shop and pay to have it fixed. They cant upgrade it they cant modify it they cant turn it off. Its modern day "Company store" bullshit
patrick451 5y ago
Saving lives is not the only metric to optimize.