4 ms·

That is a unique take on the abolition of slavery. I am sure you have accessed much more literature and data on this take that seems novel to me.

rayiner 5y ago
I don't think there's anything unique about it. Some Enlightenment thinkers opposed slavery, but abolition in the U.S. was an evangelical Christian movement. The Republican Party was a fusion of religious fundamentalists and northeastern capitalists. The Civil Rights movement was also quite closely affiliated with Christianity until the late 20th century. It's not a coincidence that Martin Luther King was a preacher. Remember that, prior to modern genetic science, "all men are created equal" was an unfalsifiable assertion. IT was an article of faith. The Confederacy thus sought to portray their position as resting on scientific observation. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornerstone-speech https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornersto.... And, of course, there's little apart from faith that could convince a society to sacrifice 360,000 of their own to fight for the freedom of a distinct group of people. I'm not aware of any other such "war of morality" in history prior to that. All that being said, not every perceived social ill is slavery, and the Civil War isn't a good template for how we should relate to societies that have different moral frameworks. Do we want to go to war with Bangladesh because homosexuality is illegal there? My view is that Bangladeshis get to decide how to structure their society, and that this self determination is a principle that overrides almost all others. But maybe I'm biased being a foreigner.
- loudmax 5y ago
  > My view is that Bangladeshis get to decide how to structure their society, and that this self determination is a principle that overrides almost all others. Unless you're a Bangladeshi gay I suppose. Then other people get to determine your social structure for you.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    Self-determination is a collective right, not an individual right. Distinct groups of people get to structure their society as they see fit. Individuals within that a society must abide by those rules. International law, of course, recognizes individual rights as well. My point is that when a society doesn’t abide by those rights, it’s not the business of other societies to do anything about it. Self-determination should trump in almost every case.

rayiner 5y ago

I don't think there's anything unique about it. Some Enlightenment thinkers opposed slavery, but abolition in the U.S. was an evangelical Christian movement. The Republican Party was a fusion of religious fundamentalists and northeastern capitalists. The Civil Rights movement was also quite closely affiliated with Christianity until the late 20th century. It's not a coincidence that Martin Luther King was a preacher. Remember that, prior to modern genetic science, "all men are created equal" was an unfalsifiable assertion. IT was an article of faith. The Confederacy thus sought to portray their position as resting on scientific observation. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornerstone-speech https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornersto.... And, of course, there's little apart from faith that could convince a society to sacrifice 360,000 of their own to fight for the freedom of a distinct group of people. I'm not aware of any other such "war of morality" in history prior to that. All that being said, not every perceived social ill is slavery, and the Civil War isn't a good template for how we should relate to societies that have different moral frameworks. Do we want to go to war with Bangladesh because homosexuality is illegal there? My view is that Bangladeshis get to decide how to structure their society, and that this self determination is a principle that overrides almost all others. But maybe I'm biased being a foreigner.

loudmax 5y ago
> My view is that Bangladeshis get to decide how to structure their society, and that this self determination is a principle that overrides almost all others. Unless you're a Bangladeshi gay I suppose. Then other people get to determine your social structure for you.
- rayiner 5y ago
  Self-determination is a collective right, not an individual right. Distinct groups of people get to structure their society as they see fit. Individuals within that a society must abide by those rules. International law, of course, recognizes individual rights as well. My point is that when a society doesn’t abide by those rights, it’s not the business of other societies to do anything about it. Self-determination should trump in almost every case.